Climate Change Discussion

[riptides]

Money spent on social programs dwarfs the Defense Department budget.

Social programs do have their place in this country. And the military has an equal part in waste, fraud and abuse.

What are 'smarter' fuel standards?

Recall a month or so ago, that the higher fuel ratings for gasoline miles per gallons were once again debated,

By and large this benefits urban centers and does less for suburban and almost nothing for rural areas.

I'd look to Europe for a true mass transit system that services rural communities.

Sending more tax dollars to the government doesn't solve the problem, e.g., the Social Security fund is supposed to be dedicated to Social Security but that's a fiction. The same fate awaits any gas, oil and 'windfall profits' taxes earmarked to solve this problem. How many times does government have to fail on promises to solve our problems before more people become skeptical of any solution, e.g., carbon tax, that involves sending more money to Washington?

I don't agree, some pretty good programs exist for farm subsidiaries, technologies, drug research and other programs. I mean we do some things in this country very well. I will not knock something off just because of some other programs fiscal failures.

-Mike Z.

 

[LMTC]

It is the extreme swings in weather patterns we are starting to observe.

A few weeks ago it was over 70 degrees, then the next day into the 40's.

I cannot recall in my lifes observations such temperature swings. But then again, all models are simulated and my data is suspect.

-Mike Z.

25 - 30 degree or more temp swings in 24-36 hours are nothing new in the Ohio River valley. It may not be commonplace, but neither is it new or rare. Somewhere around '77 we had THE blizzard, and temps dropped about 60* in less than 36 hours. No, I cannot point to the specific weather records nor am I going to look them up. I've lived here 57 + years, and I know from experience that is something I have seen many times.

 

[riptides]

25 - 30 degree or more temp swings in 24-36 hours are nothing new in the Ohio River valley. It may not be commonplace, but neither is it new or rare. Somewhere around '77 we had THE blizzard, and temps dropped about 60* in less than 36 hours. No, I cannot point to the specific weather records nor am I going to look them up. I've lived here 57 + years, and I know from experience that is something I have seen many times.

And in my area, I cannot recall seeing rose of sharon blooming in January. Until last month.

-Mike Z.

 

[Egon]

Back in the good old days we have heard of one side of the street at +10 F and the other side at -10 F during a Chinook.

 

[N80]

I'd look to Europe for a true mass transit system that services rural communities.

I cringe at the thought of looking toward Europe for anything.

You do have a point. Sort of. I agree that we would have benefited from a Europe-like rail system, but that ship has sailed. It was a mistake of enourmous proportions when this country abandoned rails for an interstate highway system that embraced the automobile with the foreign oil dependance, pollution and global warming debate that came with it. Also, virtually any reference to anything good coming from Europe usually fails to take scale into consideration whether its a mass transit system, socialized medicine or public education. The US is physically huge both in size and now in population.

The only thing that comes from Europe that transcends its relatively small size is world wars and imperialism. But still, I agree, urban, local and interstate fast rail would be wonderful for this country, but if we take that cue from Europe we should also take their cue on nuclear power. They've had some luck with that.

 

[N80]

A few weeks ago it was over 70 degrees, then the next day into the 40's.

I don't know whether to laugh or not. You guys talking about the weather that you can remember are surely joking right? Please tell me you are. Sometimes its just hard to tell on the internet, but that is the sort of thing that the media is breeding and I do hear people making such statements seriously.

I've even lapsed into it myself. I commented to my wife remembering several winters (in mid SC) when I was a kid where the pond at the end of the street froze from bank to bank thick enough to walk on and I haven't seen it since. Hmm. Why is that. Ooh, ooh, ooh, I know. But then she reminds me of the summer of '83 when here in upstate SC it was over 100 for over 10 days. Haven't seen anything like it since then. The new ice age is upon us!

It is hard for people to grasp that climate trends are measured in centuries, not generations.

 

[Doc_Bob]

How about McDonalds is responsible for obesity?

I thought they were responsible for stupidity. Spill "hot" coffee on yourself, and they are responsible.

Because they offer delicious food at a good price
Bob

 

[thingy]

Well it was 7 above here this morning and I hear that was mild compared to 7-8 states,,,you all notice that since this cold snap happened the only people on the news who are talking about it are now making fun of it?
By the way,my rabbit dog slept outside last night in his dog house and was just as healthy as ever this morning,,,he was out there laying on the frozen ground sunning himself after I let him loose,it was so cold,,,but happy none the less [and I'm sure ready for spring,,or more global warming],,thingy

 

[IH3444]

Cambodians ponder an unfamiliar concept: cold | csmonitor.com

 

[Doc_Bob]

Cambodians ponder an unfamiliar concept: cold | csmonitor.com

More proof of global warming.
Bob

 

[LMTC]

Thus it begins....Oregon's legislature is contemplating legislation to remove the current state climatologist, not because he denies GW, but because he doesn't think humans are the primary cause. Oregon's Governor has stated his desire to replace this man for the same reasons. There is some weirdness in that OSU gave him this title, not a political entity, but the bottom line is the political powers that be will not tolerate a different view.

The Party Line

Once again this points out inherent philosphical differences. You don't see/hear those who say that GW is natural and/or a normal cyclical happening demanding the jobs/certifications/etc. of those who claim humans are responsible for it now, but we certainly DO hear that side doing this. One side seems much more willing to allow a divergent view to exist, while the other side seems determined to stamp out any view that doesn't agree with them.

 

[dmccarty]

...One side seems much more willing to allow a divergent view to exist, while the other side seems determined to stamp out any view that doesn't agree with them.

Yep and the side that is stamping out spoken diversity is the side that always talks the talk about the goodness of diversity.... Thinks that make you go hmmmm.

I have read that 1/30, yes 1/30, of the CO2 put into the atmosphere is caused by human activity. I can't find any mention on wikipedia of this. Its all about human caused CO2.

The gas causing the greatest global warming is water vapor. But Gore is not running around telling people to take less showers. Thankfully.

The hockey, or should we call it the hokey stick, graph that is used to show human causes global warming has caused lots of controversy. One of the interesting things about it is that it only goes back 1000 years. Since one side of this argument is that there is a natural temperature swing every 1500 years or so why does the graph only go back 1,000 years? Why not 1500 or 3000. Would that not be a better measurement to show a true trend over time?

The first hockey stick graph published by the UN was done by two non scientists who refused to show their data on how they created the graph. Lots of controversy every since.

Later,
Dan

 

[turbo36]

Once again this points out inherent philosphical differences. You don't see/hear those who say that GW is natural and/or a normal cyclical happening demanding the jobs/certifications/etc. of those who claim humans are responsible for it now, but we certainly DO hear that side doing this. One side seems much more willing to allow a divergent view to exist, while the other side seems determined to stamp out any view that doesn't agree with them.

Are you serious? What a laugh!!!! The current administration has been ruthless in their pursuit to punish anyone that dares disagree with the party line. Now this discussion has truly entered the twilight zone. Thanks so much for the post I haven't laughed this hard in a long time!

 

[MikePA]

Are you serious? What a laugh!!!! The current administration has been ruthless in their pursuit to punish anyone that dares disagree with the party line. Now this discussion has truly entered the twilight zone. Thanks so much for the post I haven't laughed this hard in a long time!

Please point out where the current administration punished someone who didn't toe their Global Warming line.

 

[EddieWalker]

The Oregon Governor and the Weather Channel are two examples of one side clearly doing everything in there power to eliminate debate and only allow one side of the story.

Turbo,

You say that the Bush administration is guilty of doing the same thing. Please give some examples.

It was the Clinton Administration that refused to sign Kyoto. Bush has agreed with Clinton on this, but for some reason that I can't comprehend, Bush is taking all the heat for it, while Clinton and Gore run around complaining that Bush isn't doing anything to save us from Global Warming. The hypocrysy is amazing.

Gore spent 8 years as vice president, but didn't do anything to stop Global Warming. As soon as he gets out of office, he runs around telling everyone else how to save the world while flying in private jets, driving in motorcades and heating two mansions. Does anybody believe for one second he believes anything he's trying to preach to the rest of us? He sure isn't doing anything to stop it, just make as much money at it as he can from it.

His actions tell the real story.

Eddie

 

[Chuck52]

There have been a number of stories lately about how the Bush administration muzzled government scientists who were reporting on global warming. Does that count as intolerance of opposing views?


Chuck

 

[MikePA]

Does that count as intolerance of opposing views?

This is the problem. If this was really science, there wouldn't be 'views', there'd be facts and a proven hypothesis.

 

[turbo36]

I'm sure someone will immediately dismiss this link because they don't like the person or the organization that put out the info but i Will post it any way.

Has Bush Interfered on Global Warming Reports? » Netscape.com

The common defense tactic seems to go like this on the board.

Step 1. Dispute the statement and ask for proof.

Step 2. When proof is offered use the excuse "Oh I know all about the (insert any person or organization here) and they can't be trusted so I don't read their stuff.

Step 3. In the rare case you can't defame the source, claim they are mistaken (but entitled to their opinion) .

This is getting funnier and funnier. Wahoo!!!

 

[MikePA]

This is getting funnier and funnier. Wahoo!!!

On this, we agree.

Please read my last post. If this were science, sources would not matter.

 

[SkyPup]

Does anyone really think that any government can change the weather climate so that it does not change?

It's changed every 24 hours for the last 4-5 billion years, we must put a stop to all that!