Clearing Trails

[bmac]

Good evening, Eddie.

<font color="blue"> One of the things I like about you is your ability to plan and your attention to detail. </font>

Well, you are kind to say this, but my questions really just come from total ignorance. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif What is almost a natural instinct to many of you is totally foreign to me. I struggle with what to many are very simple tasks. One thing I've learned from this thread is that there are many ways to cut a trail. My goal (beyond providing a safe riding place for my kids) is to do it with the least amount of risk to me. Therefore, avoiding the use of a chainsaw was a high priority. Cutting down trees big enough to put a serious lump on my head is another. Therein lies my interest in "safe" ways to clear the trail.

As a result of all of the feedback on this thread, I am now the proud owner of chainsaw (haven't cranked it yet) and a cordless sawzall (I did use it the other day) and a heavy-duty lopper. I've marked the trail with surveyors tape and spent about 2.5 hours clearing maybe 150'. I now realize that this approach will not work for the entire trail. Its time for heavy equipment.

I would love to use my NH 29D and bushhog to just drive through and mulch everything in one pass. However, there are too many trees that exceed the 2" capacity of my brush cutter. There's alot that it could cut, but right in the middle might be two or three 4'-6'ers. I can't recall anything over about 8' that's going to be cut down.

So, now I'm thinking about the skidsteer rental idea. I think it could push most of the stuff over very easily, leaving me with a minimal amount of chainsaw work. If I also rent a grapple bucket or rake, that should make moving the stuff to a burn pile a little easier. The kids can get some work in moving the sapplings into managable piles on the trail, and I can come back and pick them up with the grapple. Then, once I get the tractor over there, I can use the BH to dig out any troublesome stumps and maintain the trail with the bushhog and loppers. So, anyone see a problem with this plan?

<font color="blue"> Your fear of a chainsaw is well founded. They terify me as well. Everytime I use one, I think of all the things that could happen and how bad it's gonna hurt. Hopefully this fear keeps me cautious and it never happens. </font>

This reminds me of your "respect" of heights and how Steph jumped in to do some of the roofing work on your house. You think we could get Steph to give my wife a call and talk her into being the chainsaw babe for me? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Might work.

<font color="blue"> You really suprised me with your reluctance to buy a trailer. ... How about culverts, pipe, lumber, furniture, ATV's, vehicles, plywood and just about anything else. </font>

Eddie, Eddie, Eddie. You flatter me. Other than the ATVs (which is a totally new experience for me) I'm not very likely to need a trailer load of anything on your list. I wish I had the inclination, skills and smarts to take on the kinds of projects that you (and many of our other fine TBN friends) do and that would justify / require transporting those kinds of materials. But, its probably not going to happen. My projects are small. Laying a pallet of sod is a major undertaking for me. Now, I have looked at trailers (I'm getting prices of over $2K for new 16'-18', dual axle w/ electric brakes around here). But, with my tractor, FEL and BH, I'd be pushing the limits of my little F150's towing capacity. I can get a lighter weight 12'er to haul the ATVs and anything else I might find myself in need of. I have a 10'x6' utlity trailer that I use now and it has served all of my needs thus far. But I can't get all 3 ATVs on it so I'll probably get rid of that one.

You are a good guy, Eddie. I appreciate you.

To everyone else who has taken the time to offer suggestions. I thank you as well. As you can see, thanks to many of you, I now have more power tools. And chaps. And a logger's helmet. Keep your suggestions coming. This has been an informative and fun read for me, however costly.

 

[unreconstructed]

Brad

My "saplings" are some sort of thorned desert brush that make mesquite look like a picnic--thick thorned foliage. Time you get through to the trunk with lopers, you are a bloody mess. Would prefer either a small yield nuke or maybe a pound of c-4 but the gov'ment frowns on such manner of getting rid of brush. Anyhow, thought some sort of electric gadget might be less painful. The roots come out somewhere in China so grubbing in the rocks not the way to do it. Lop it off at the ground, wait for it to come back and then zap it with Remedy seems to work the best. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[EddieWalker]

bmac,

I understand you position on the trailer and didn't realize you already have one. I used to borrow them all the time, but when I really needed one, and all my friends were busy, I made the decision to buy one. It really has turned out to be a smart move that if I find it's not being used, I know I can sell it for almost what I paid for it and be money ahead.

I've never ran a small backhoe on the back of a CUT, so things are probably different comparing yours to mine, but one thing I've learned is it's fairly simple to take out a tree with a backhoe, and very difficult to dig out a stump.

In my mind, I think I'm understanding what your trying to do, but of course, I could be totally off base. The trails will evolve into more than just ATV trails in time. Hiking, driving, and even pasture in time.

Driving your tractor with bush hog around the tree will just open things up that much better. Ther'es no advantage to a trail being thin, but the wider it is, the more fun it will be. Safer and visually apealing too.

I have very limited experience on skid steers. Those who have them love them, but they will aslo tell you how unstable they are, not to mention phyisically abbusive on the operator.

If you're going to spend the money on renting a skid steer, you might want to compare that amount to what a small dozer operator will charge to come out and clear some trails.

You mentioned earlier that you asked about using a dozer to clear trails and from the advice you recieved dediced against it. I never saw that thread, or I don't remember it, but from personal experience, if you can get a dozer to do the job, you won't find a better tool to do the job.

I can make one pass with my dozer and open things up enough to see what's going on. Then come back with my backhoe to take out the trees that didn't come out and pull out the piles of brush for burning. The chainsaw is last to cut off branches and general clean up.

If I'm building a road with the dozer, then I'll dig out everything with several passes, but that's to get all the plant material. You don't need to worry about roots and top soil for your needs, just open things up.

Once you have the main openings cut, than you can spend the rest of your life improving them. As mentioned earlier by another poster, somtimes the kids get bored with the trails after the initial thrill is gone. This is what happened to me. I find creating the trails to be more fun than riding on them.

Finding a place to create a hidden meadow or a picnic area around a large three is much more fun than just riding by the trees. I'm also a hunter, but haven't killed a deer on my land since buying it. Might never kill one here, just hogs. My goal is to be able to see deer on a daily basis and enjoy watching them. Improving your habitat by opening up your trails, planting differnt grasses and creating feed areas for them is also more fun to me than riding ATV's.

Just my thoughts. I too come from limited exposure to the country way of living and consider myself a beginner trying to learn as much as I can. Most of the time I'm running blind learning as I go. If it breaks, I fix it, if not, I keep on going.

Eddie

 

[Tact]

Contracting a dozer operator will depend on the size of equipment being used and will range somewhere between $65-85/HR. You can probably rent a skidsteer with tracks, clam shell bucket(4 in 1), and delivered for somewhere around $200/DAY. If the ground is somewhat dry and not too mucky you can use a skidsteer with rubber tires. Smoothing out the tire tracks is easily accomplished with the bucket. My Bobcat S250 is like a small dozer and is an astonishing workhorse.

 

[Trail_Time]

BMAC,

I have made ATV/walking trails on my last two properties. I am currently working on the new one... it will be over 2 miles when complete.

You have gotten a bunch of good tips. I would route the trail so as to take down the least trees as possible. I usually make the first pass with tractor and bush hog, cutting where only necessary. I use a chipper on the cut trees to make mulch to be spread as needed, it works great in muddy areas. Small stumps will be Ok on the ATVs if cut square with the ground, especially where speeds are low. I often mark them with orange paint for extra visability. They will rot in due time. If you have a lot of medium sized stumps 8"-12" you could rent a stump grinder and get rid of them all in one day. You can tow the grinder behind your tractor. Just grind them 3-4" below the surface and cover with mulch.

If you rent a Bobcat... try one of the rubber tracked ones like the T300. They work really well.

As mentioned earlier... while you maintain the trail each year it will look better and better with age. Don't expect too much on your initial clearing. You may want to leave a small log or two across the trail just for a fun obstacle to cross.

You will be surprised at how much the native wildlife uses your trail.

Have fun and drive safe!

 

[BarryinMN]

Hmmm I think you may be worrying too much /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Click on my earlier postings; about a year ago I posted a trail build with my crawler adding to an existing trail. I think it was in the JD forum as my crawler is a JD.

Trees fall in the forest everyday & eventually rot back into dirt. Why drag em out? - they will disappear in a year or two anyway /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Take some brush & make a pile in the woods, it will become an apartment house for critters /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, Eddie has it nailed making access to hidden meadows picnic rock, taking advantage of heights etc.

As the kids skills increase and get bored add features like balancing beams of RR ties, mud bogs, sharp hill climbs etc.

Only limit to your imagination is your machinery if you have mud and can't get the thing unstuck by itself... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[bmac]

My buddy and I spent about 3 hours today with the chainsaws cutting down the larger trees on the trail. Nothing over 6"-8" was cut. I'm guessing we cleared 30% of the length of the trail today (a lot of small sapplings were left and will be pushed over with the skidsteer later). However, we did the easy part today. The underbrush and briars get alot thicker on the next section. Still, we think it will be better to get the trees out that are too large for the Bobcat before I rent it so we're not wasting valuable rental time while we're cutting down trees. Also, we were slowed by limbing and cutting up the tree trunks after felling - something that would have to have been done anyway to get them off the trail. This way, when the skidsteer arrives, the job should go quickly.

Fortunately, my buddy did most of the chainsaw work while I tossed and dragged the the cut-up trees off the trail and into the woods. I was happy with this division of labor. We also gave the kids a bye on the work today as we didn't want them anywhere around the saw and falling trees. They'll have plenty of opportunities for hard labor.

Had no problems starting the new Stihl saw- it ran and cut great. I'll keep y'all posted on the progress. Will probably be a couple of weeks before we can get back to work on this project.

 

[HGM]

One more thought....

I have had pretty good luck renting (whatever) over holiday weekends. They will usually give you a free day rental if you pick it up before close, the last day before a holiday.

 

[EddieWalker]

bmac,

I'm curious about the skid steer and how your going to use it to clear trails. With very limited experience and knowlege of them, I'm at a lost on how it will work.

When you get it, please take some pics of it in operation. I'd love to see how you go about clearing trails with one.

Thanks,
Eddie

PS I had a thought about the erosion issue you mentioned earlier. I have clay soil and the lay of my land isn't very steep. Erosion isn't an issue. The clay holds tight and the water runs right off the top.

 

[bmac]

<font color="blue"> I'm curious about the skid steer and how your going to use it to clear trails. With very limited experience and knowlege of them, I'm at a lost on how it will work.
</font>

Eddie,

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who is at a loss for how the skidsteer will work at clearing the trail. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It has been suggested here that I try to push the trees over instead of cutting them to eliminate stumps. A dozer has been mentioned as the tool of choice, although a skidsteer has also been suggested. Others have said that I shouldn't worry about just cutting the trees and monitoring the stumps for problems. I decided to take both suggestions. Instead of ripping the place up with a dozer, I decided to try the skidsteer (maybe one with rubber tracks). Now, obviously, the skidsteer is not going to have the same influence on the bigger trees that a dozer would have - that is why I'm cutting the bigger ones. The stuff I'm leaving behind now should come right up when introduced to the bucket of the skidsteer. they are only 3" in diameter or less. The holes left behind should not be too big and I won't have to worry about the small, pointy stumps poking holes in the tires of the ATVs (which some have said shouldn't be a problem anyway).

As far as technique with the skidsteer, I'm thinking I'll just lower the bucket and drive. If I have to get the edge of the bucket under the roots and curl to extract the tree, then I think I will be creating a bigger problem than just cutting the sapplings down. Only time will tell if my plan will work. I have no experience doing this.

The only advantage of the skidsteer over my CUT w/ FEL is (a) I won't be beating up MY tractor in the woods and (b) I think the skidsteer will be more manuverable in some of the tight turns of the trail. Also, if I get a root rake or grapple bucket with the skidsteer, I can clean up the fallen trees pretty easily. Once the trailis cleared, I can come back with my tractor's BH and dig up any problematic stumps. BTW, per the suggestions of some, I'm cutting the biggest trees at 4' to aid in removing the stumps later.

Having said all of this, I really don't have a clue as to how it will work out. Its going to be a $300 experiment. But at the very least, I will have my first opportunity to operate a skidsteer (something I have been wanting to do). Maybe all I'll get out of it is a day of riding through the woods on a skidsteer. Should be fun to try. And I can justify the expense as hands-on educational opportunity.

 

[Tact]

Just some advice with the skidsteer. Don't try to dig up too much dirt and disturb too much of the soil. All that will do is make a scenerio of alot of mud and wash. Try to take up each tree at the base by digging the teeth of your bucket straight down as close to the tree as you can get, and then lifting the rootball and tree with the bucket just enough for the tree to fall. Then you can just push it to the side and go to the next tree or clump of trees from there. That way minimal settled soil will be disturbed. It may take you an hour or so to get used to it, but I'm sure you'll get the hang of it the more you use it. Hope I didn't confuse you and good luck. Have fun.

 

[EddieWalker]

bmac,

Not sure when your getting the skid steer, but I'm sure exited to hear how it worked out. Since you're main goal is to experience running a skid steer, you can't go wrong. You should get plenty of time to do that. When your done, you can get a dozer in there to really clear your trails!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just kidding.

Most of my trails started from finding opening in the brush that I could get my CUT throught with the mower. Here is one trail that I did two years ago. I've gone over it a few times always trying to get it just a little wider.

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Here's another trail that I was able to get wider sooner than the first one. As a result, more sun was able to get to the groud, and grass started to grow.

On the left hand side of the picture you can see the clear ground from my latest elargment of the area. Everytime I mow, I try to get a little more along the edges to open it up just a little more.

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Those first two posts were of trails I did with just my CUT and mower through saplings and small stuff that I was able to run over and cut up.

This picture is of a new trail I just started with my dozer. This is two passes with the blade just at ground level through stuff too thick for my CUT.

Next I'll take out the bigger stumps with my backhoe and finish it off with my mower.

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

The thing about clearing brush with a dozer is the blade gets full of stuff and it will build up to the point you can't see over it. I usually run blind on the first pass just dodging between the trees trying to maintain the direction I have in mind.

The second cut is where I clean it up enough to walk on.

This is a picture of a bush pile I shoved off to the side of the trail. I'll leave this there for awhile. If I come back later with the dozer and the burn ban is lifted, I'll push it to the burn pile, otherwise, it might stay there until it decomposes on it's own.

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

This is more extreme than what your looking to do, but it's what a dozer can do whith a few more passes when your really trying to clear things up.

Eddie

 

[bmac]

<font color="blue"> When your done, you can get a dozer in there to really clear your trails!! </font>

I hear ya, Eddie. Tell me again what day I can expect you and the dozer to arrive. I forgot to mark it on my calender. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Nice trails. Keep in mind, I only have 12 acres of woods. If I made my trails that wide, I'd have a 12 acre pasture (Not that there is anything wrong with that).

I appreciate the tips and photos. Looks real nice.

 

[EddieWalker]

bmac,

I was thinking about your trails and forgot to mention a few things.

Winter time is ALLOT better for clearing than any other time. No leaves or bugs. The bugs might be more important if you hit a hive or get stung. The back of my neck is usually tore up by bugs eating on me. For some reason that's were I get bit the most. Every tractor has a bottle of DEET in it that I use religously. When I hit a hive, I back off and start spraying myself all over to just create a cloud. So far it's worked. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

With the leaves down, you can see where your going. It's also easier to burn just branches without the leaves. Not that leaves don't burn, but they float off and start other fires.

The other advantage to winter clearing is the ground is usually saturated from the rains. When it's dry out, the ground acts like cement holding trees in. After a rain, even though it's dry enough to drive on, it's still wet just below the surface. This makes a HUGE difference in the size and ease of what you can take out.

Pines are the toughest for me to get out on my place. In winter, the size of tree is several inches wider that I can push over with my dozer. Trees I wouldn't even try in summer just pop right out in winter. I also don't break off as many in winter. Sometimes small trees just snap off at the base in my situation. But that's very rare when the ground is wet.

Hope this helps,
Eddie

 

[bmac]

Good evening, Eddie.

You are dead on about getting the trail cleared before things green up. If I wait until spring, it will probably double the amount of work/time to get the job done.

Besides the burning issues you mentioned, around here we have a ban on outdoor burning that runs from April (I think) until October due to the smog problems of Atlanta (25 miles north of me).

As always, Eddie, thanks for the helpful tips.

BTW, I noticed that you didn't jump on my invitation (sush as it was) to load up the dozer and come over here for a little trail clearin'. Heck, Eddie, are you sure you are getting enough dozer work at home? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[EddieWalker]

bmac,

My second mostest favoritest thing to do with my dozer is clear trails!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Nothing like it, but my dozer says it's happy here and doesn't want to leave. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

My number one favoritests thing to do is shape the ground to create what I'm wanting, wether a road, hill, pad or whatever. It's like an art project, just bigger and BETTER!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Enjoy,
Eddie