CK30 KL130 curl problem

[DrewL]

with or without the toothbar, the curl of the bucket "stalls" when entering a pile of dirt.......wet or dry. It seems that is a lack of power in this function only. I have to back up to take a 1/2 bucket load at a time then reenter to fill the bucket. I've had two rocks in there the size of a Yugo with no problem so I feel the lifting capacity is in line. I also have a KB2375 hoe and no problems there...................impressive actually. 150 hours with two filter changes and one full fluid change. I always felt that the curl function was the most powerful on many machines. Any ideas? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[rapracing]

I have had the same problem. I try to ease into the pile a little slower and work the bucket a little. That helps but it does seem to lack in lift (curl) power in that situation.

 

[KiotiJohn]

It is a matter of working the bucket.
Go in with the bucket angled down about 2/3, not full dump, dig in while you push forward with the tractor, start curling back the bucket, pull back a little whith the tractor if you're getting to the end of your pile, and do it again.

You can also work the bucket up and down (dump/curl) while your pushing into the pile and that will break up the soil and grab it into the bucket.
I actually go forward / reverse with the tractor in small steps while manipulating the bucket into the pile and get a full load each time.

The bucket will be dumping-curling as I go in and picking up more soil each time.
John

 

[DrewL]

that's how I already approach a pile of dirt/loam. I have a pile of loam now that is about dry as it will be and it still stalls.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

When doing heavy loader work, to get the full strength of the hydraulic system on most modern tractors you need to have your engine RPMs up. Are you running at/near the PTO speed of the tractor? If not, try again with the RPMs running higher and see if that is where your problem lies. You may just be running the engine speed to low to give you full hydraulic strength.

 

[KiotiJohn]

Good point Bob.
Well, there's always the possibility that the loader isn't working as it should. I always get some stall if I'm in the full dumped position and try to curl back without moving. I don't find the curl is the strongest on these loaders.
The powered dump actually seems stronger, like when I want to break up a pile, I put the loader down about 1/2-2/3 and push the dump to pull the dirt back. Much stronger in that position than curling.
You may want to try doing that. Break up the pile some by backdragging, dumping with the toothbar on, then go in and load it.
It's really hard to visualize exactly what's going on on this text forum!
John

 

[BigDogues]

I had a similar experience when I first started using the loader. My problem was that I would drive into the pile and try to scoop up a load from the bottom up. It would never make it. Then I realized instead of trying to scoop up only one bucketful I was trying to pick up a full bucket and all the material that was above it. If you have a pile 5' high, that's a lot of weight! So I learned quickly to scrape at the pile while lifting and curling at the same time. Now I can get a full bucket every time.
Aside from that I have heard of issues with air in the system from going directly to float from high up. But that usually effects lift and not curl.

 

[DrewL]

I will admit that I run at/around 1500rpm's 'cause that is ok for ground speeds and my hearing /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I will try higher rpm's next time out but then my next question would be, why are my other loader or backhoe functions not compromised by lower hyd pump output?

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I will admit that I run at/around 1500rpm's 'cause that is ok for ground speeds and my hearing . I will try higher rpm's next time out but then my next question would be, why are my other loader or backhoe functions not compromised by lower hyd pump output? )</font>
With the extra RPM you really get more flow of the hydro fluid, I'm not really sure that you get a lot more strength, but what you get is a faster moving bucket which may help it to overcome the pressure of trying to curl. Does that make any sense?
I could not imagine trying to do any task on my CK20 at less than 2000 RPM, except for using the backhoe which I keep between 1800 and 2000.
For loading, the loader is slow at less than 2200.

I wouldn't drive around at only 1500 myself as I feel it actually puts the engine in a strain. 1800 is the least I drive around with.

John

 

[DrewL]

is the hyd pump for the transmission (HST) the sane for the CK20 CK25 and the CK30?

 

[KiotiJohn]

I don't think they are the same. The CK25/30 has a higher flow than the CK20, but the fact remains that the flow is better with more RPM. Where 1500 RPM would be really a crawl for me, you may get just a bit better speed from it, but I still believe it's too low to operate in that range.
John

 

[Mavrik02]

DrewL,

That will be a BIG part of the issue. The curl on my KL130 is very strong but it is directly related to the RPM. I normally operate at 2300-2500 when I do heavy FEL work. You WILL see a big difference from 1500.

Given this there are still limits to what the tractor will lift, especially if the dirt or clay is hard packed. But there are ways around that too.

 

[DrewL]

ok........fair enough. I'll give the rpm's a boost. Without having tried it yet please answer the question about why it doesn't affect any other function?.....loader or BH

 

[TBDonnelly]

I'll agree with Mavrik and even Bob on this one. Crank up your RPM's. I think you'll notice your loader and BH functions be stronger and quicker. It'll take a little more finesse with the joystick because of the faster speed but you should have alot more power. The higher RPM's should take your tractor to a whole new level of performance.

Don

 

[Mavrik02]

The RPM setting will affect the lift of the FEL but it may not be as noticable as the curl. When I'm really trying to pop a root ball I need to up the RPMs to get enough power to get maximum lifting capability. One way you can test this out is to put the tractor in M and at 1500 RPM and try to lift the front wheels off the ground with the FEL, then up the RPMs to 2500 and try it again...then try it all again in L and see what the difference is.

The RPMs will also affect the power of the tractor in drive. On some of my hills I must shift into low and up the RPMs just to have enough power to drive up the hill (the tractor won't drive up my driveway in Medium at low RPM).

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ok........fair enough. I'll give the rpm's a boost. Without having tried it yet please answer the question about why it doesn't affect any other function?.....loader or BH )</font>
On my tractor is does effect all the other hydraulics, and i suspect it does on yours. Have you actually played with the RPM settings using each function? You should see a major difference in all functions between 1500 and 2600 RPM. For one thing, the boom swing on your backhoe is almost uncontrollable at 2600 unless you are VERY good at feathering the lever.
I suppose that increasing the RPM could possibly increase pressure, making the curl stronger, but I'm not convinced you get more than a faster operation.
As Mavrik pointed out, the range in which you have the tractor has a lot to do with moving power as well.
You don't have to worry about using higher RPM. What's hard on the tractor is putting a strain on the engine by using too low RPM and "lugging" the tractor.
John