ck20 or ck25

rapracing · Apr 23, 2005

I am going to purchase a ck 20 or 25 or a Kubota bkk23 in the next couple of weeks. Is the Kioti equal in quality to the Kubota? How about parts availability? I probably know the answer to the this question but is it worth the extra to buy to 25? I am in central Pa. Has anyone made a purchase recently on a TLB? If so what is a fair price in the area? Thanks for the help!

KiotiJohn · Apr 23, 2005

First, I suppose you mean the BX23? That's a Sub CUT and the others are CUTs (compact utility tractor), the CK20 is a small frame CUT and the CK25 is a medium framed CUT. Lot's of difference.
I don't know what your uses will be for the tractors, but I can easily say that the CK25 is enough higher-priced than the CK20 not to by the 25. It will allow you to use the next size up in mowers and other 3pt hitch attachments (5' vs 4') and has a lot of extras like telescoping hitch arms and stabilizers that make hook up much easier.
As far as quality goes, I don't think Kubota has anything better. They are both very good quality. Daedong engines have been made since 1949, they know how to build engines. They have built tractors since the 60's. Kioties are comfortable, well laid out with platform frames instead of ladder frames (strong, but not as nice as a platform).
I have Kioti, so unless you can get a much better price on a Kubota, you'll get more, usually, in a Kioti for less money.
The B7510 Kubota is the comparable tractor to the Kioti CK20 by the way. You'll get more clearance with it and the Kioties than you will with a BX23. You should be able to get a CK20 TLB in the neighborhood of $17K to $17,500.
John
John

rapracing · Apr 23, 2005

uses will be small horse farm work, 6-8 acres mowing, drive way work and snow removal etc. And yes I meant the BK. Sorry.

KiotiJohn · Apr 23, 2005

No need to apologize, we all make mksiakes!
You mean 6-8 acres of finish mowing, or brush mowing? I think finish. Do you want a mid mount mower (MMM) or a rear finish mower (RFM)?
With that much mowing, I'd sure go for the CK25 and a 5' brush mower and you can use a 6' finish mower on it.
With the CK20, you could use a 4' (maybe 5') brush mower, and a 5' finish mower.
You can get a good MMM on a BX23, but it doesn't have a lot clearance, the tires are small and the postion control only changes in 1/4" increments which makes it a little harder to get it exactly where you want as you can on the Kioties.
The BX 3pt is "limited 3 point," in other words, it can't handle all of the standard sized 3pt. implements such as a full size Post Hole Digger (PHD).
I don't like the current MMMs on any of the Kioties and until they offer a better one, I'd only use RFM.
Are we beginning to get there?
John

cag · Apr 23, 2005

John does the kioti BH sub frame once install leave you with about 6 to 7 inch of ground clearance ...cag

KiotiJohn · Apr 24, 2005

( John does the kioti BH sub frame once install leave you with about 6 to 7 inch of ground clearance ...cag )
charlie, you're like the devil's advocate. Each time someone is interested in a Kioti, you come along to point out something that is well documented in the TBN forum. You know very well that clearance is changed with the addition of the subframe, but it isn't a compromising change as most people place a backhoe where they're going to use it and stay in that area until finished. Then the subframe and backhoe come off for use of other 3pt implmements.
I've seen quite a pattern here from you of trying to intimate negatives regarding Kioti and I'm beginning to become very suspect of your participation in this fourm. After all, you've been here a long time, and have read probably every post made about Kioti, yet you continue to come along and ask these types of questions that have been asked and answered many many times. What's your agenda anyway?
John

bigtractor · Apr 24, 2005

Clearance not an isue if you put a Woods 4 point unit on Clear as a Bell under her.

KiotiJohn · Apr 24, 2005

( Clearance not an isue if you put a Woods 4 point unit on Clear as a Bell under her.)
Not that you should be on here at this time of night, but you make a good point! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I've seen those backhoes at your dealership, and yes, the clearance is much higher with the Woods. Another nice thing about the Woods 4pt hookup is the stability over the Kioti BH. There's not a lot of retightening bolts on the Woods.
John

cag · Apr 24, 2005

Respectfully replying....John, I have no pattern... I don't intimate negatives regarding Kioti...and definitely have no agenda... I simply, with respect, say it like it is... Obviously this insults you... I could go on defending myself regarding your reply, but there's no need to, it's speak's for itself....cag

GerardC · Apr 24, 2005

You know very well that clearance is changed with the addition of the subframe, but it isn't a compromising change as most people place a backhoe where they're going to use it and stay in that area until finished. 

I agree. I've never had any problems with the BH clearance.

AutoUnionTypeC · Apr 24, 2005

I've gone back and read at least three pages of Cags posts. I don't really detect any anti Kioti bias....... although I think it's fair to say he prefers a Woods backhoe over the Kioti oem maker, whoever that may be.

Cag, I have to ask…… what's it going to be a Massey or a Kioti? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Rapracing………sorry your thread got hijacked. Like John I also think Kioti’s quality is every bit as good as Kubota. Again in fairness to them (Kubota) I don’t think you should be comparing a BX to CK20, two different beasts. In my area I’ve seen BX’s run close in price to a CK20, read what you will into that, but that’s were the similarity ends. As far as the CK20 vs. CK25 goes, that’s a tough one. I was very tempted by the CK25 gear; I liked the shuttle shift and the extra ponies, as well as the telescoping 3pt hitch. Against it was its size, and the fact that there was no MMM ……yet. I found the CK20 to be a better fit for my property and needs. As it turns out I don’t have to touch my ROPS to park my 20 in either my barn or my garage. I like that /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif I don’t think you can go wrong with either choice check them both out and go with your gut. Just stay away from those pony robbing hydro units. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Regards, Jamie

cag · Apr 24, 2005

Jamie, I like the CK30tlb but weight is an issue... I think kioti makes a fine cut in the ck20tlb but again at about 3600LBS too heavy, I mentioned in previous posts, this tractor would be crossed over by barge on property we own on a Island so weight is an issue... I'm still considering kioti but at this point in time I'm looking closely at MF2310 and kubota BX23 both tractors sub cut, lightweight and pack with lots of power and in my view as good as Kioti... I also would like to thank you for taking the time to go back in archives to check some of my reply's... Finally, I like to hear it like it is from honest tractor owners so if your a dealer in disguise or some guy that's on a particular brand's payroll please don't reply, (and I don't mean you Jamie) this type of reply is dishonest and worthless to me...cag

KiotiJohn · Apr 24, 2005

( I've gone back and read at least three pages of Cags posts. I don't really detect any anti Kioti bias.... )
I didn't say he had anti Kioti bias. What he has been doing is asking questions that have been answered over and over. Notice how I mention that the Kioti has better clearance, and then Cag asks if the backhoe reduces the clearance. That has been beat to death in this forum, and he knows it.
This has happened on many occasions, and I notice it. It's just bothersome.
John

Steve_Miller · Apr 24, 2005

Sorry I posted, I got off the track of the original posting, just thought I was being objective from my experience on a point of view that seemed to have thought arose.

Steve

cag · Apr 25, 2005

John your the one that was misleading by saying the CK had a better ground clearance than the BX NOT SO ONCE THE KIOTI BH SUB FRAME IS INSTALL I check it out you never answered my question... Gerard, Steve I never mention the ground clearance was a PROBLEM.. I simply ask a question... JOHN get use to it I'll be around here much more from now on...cag

viking65 · Apr 25, 2005

cag...I read the Kioti forum frequently. John, a Kioti owner, has always been very helpful, informative and I think objective in his views about Kioti as well as being interesting to read. I don't remember anything positive that you have brought to the Kioti forum. I could be wrong, but I am not going to research your postings. Maybe you have, but nothing you have written "sticks out" as being memorable. I think possibly your purpose is to just antogonize John and by your last comment "JOHN get use to it I'll be around here much more from now on" I think I'm right.

jpr62902 · Apr 25, 2005

I don't see any antagonism, here -- at least initially. Charlie raised a question (which I also raised in an earlier thread) about the BH subframe and clearance issues -- at least when compared to that of a subCUT. Maybe the subframe doesn't present a clearance issue -- just like a subCUT's clearance doesn't seem to present an issue to the people who own them. We all have great tractors -- they all have some character or "issue" that isn't a problem for some, but is for others. It doesn't mean one is better than the other since all of our needs are different. Perhaps we could all hold hands and sing Kumbaya now?

AutoUnionTypeC · Apr 25, 2005

Cag, I considered both those machines in their non TLB dress. I guess that would be the BX2200 and GC2300. I liked both and was maybe leaning toward the Massey because I really liked the dealer, Catskill Tractor in Franklin N.Y., even though I'm fairly suspicious of AGCO. (Yes, that was an unabashed plug. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) I probably would have jumped subcut if mowing was my primary use, but as it is I'm mowing converted pasture.......I want my property to look neat but not necessarily like a golf course. True enough both those machines can do much more than mow. I just came to the conclusion they didn't have the weight or the tyre size to put all their ponies to work. Good luck with your choice…
Regards, J

AutoUnionTypeC · Apr 25, 2005

( I don't see any antagonism, here -- at least initially )
Ditto.

KiotiJohn · Apr 25, 2005

( John your the one that was misleading by saying the CK had a better ground clearance than the BX NOT SO ONCE THE KIOTI BH SUB FRAME IS INSTALL I check it out you never answered my question... )
Cag, I think you're taking this all the wrong way. Read what I said. We just went through this discussion in recent weeks, and you were involved in it. Have you forgotten? I've mislead no one. The clearance on the CK30 is reduced several inches WHILE THE BACKHOE IS ON, but is a lot more with it off which is most of the time probably for MOST users.
I certainly did answer you, here it is: ( You know very well that clearance is changed with the addition of the subframe, but it isn't a compromising change as most people place a backhoe where they're going to use it and stay in that area until finished. )
I'm probably being a little too sensitive about the issue, but I've been reading your posts on a regular basis, not just a few pages of your responses, and each time I'm discussing the pros of a tractor, you come along and bring up something such as a problem someone has had with his/her Kioti without explaining that it has been solved, or that it's been discussed over and over. How would you feel if I were doing that to you?
I apoligize if I insulted you, that was not my intention. My mission was to find out why you feel you must bring up negatives that have been discussed at length on the forum?
You knew about the clearance issue as you've made clear by this response. You didn't need me to answer it.
John