CK20 BH frame flexing

chelydra · Apr 9, 2006

While we're on the general subject of structures twisting under load... I occasionally use the BH on un-level ground, say 5 degrees slant. (Never much more so far; just doesn't feel safe.) I set the outriggers to level the BH, more or less. The frame flexes so much that all four tractor wheels stay on the ground at apparently equal pressure.

Is this acceptable, or do I need to level an area large enough for the whole tractor and BH before working? That would make a real mess of the landscape.

Thanks-

Chelydra

IslandTractor · Apr 9, 2006

I haven't tried to lift the back wheels off the ground but my outriggers can certainly lift the rear tractor weight sufficiently to see the rear wheels become "unsprung" with no problem. Mine is the KB2365 on the CK20 and I have loaded rear tires.

chelydra · Apr 9, 2006

Sorry - didn't mean that outriggers can't lift the tractor body. Instead, if I level the BH on a slope, the BH-tractor link seems to be able to twist several degrees.

KiotiJohn · Apr 9, 2006

( the BH-tractor link seems to be able to twist several degrees.)
I think you mean to say the subframe, and yes, it will, by its construction, flex a good deal, but you can also bend it that way.

If you're doing just a bit of slope, it shouldn't be a problem, but I think you can see the potential for damage if you have a lot of slope.

When you are on a slope, don't try picking up the down side to where the tire comes off the ground and you become level. Not only are you taking away part of the support from the rear tire, you're also putting too much stress on the stabilizer. They're not built to withstand much of the stress of being the total support.

If you were on a slope, lifted the rear tire off the ground to get level and the stabilizer were to break, the momentum could be enough to flip the tractor over on you. Better for you to sit a little crooked on the slope with the stabilizers just engaging the ground enough to keep the rear end from being pulled down with your digging strokes, that's what they're designed to do on a compact tractor.

I have recenlty been reading all that I can find about different ways of using backhoes, and cutting out level areas is a theme that keeps repeating in the different media I've found.

Yes, that could be detrimental to landscapes, but if it's a steep slope, you shouldn't be depending on a compact tractor backhoe's stabilizer to hold you up straight on it.

I've used mine many times with the tractor and backhoe at an angle, and it feels strange, yes, but I don't have a problem using it while I lean to one side. I think it goes with my lopsided brain just fine! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
John

Steve_Miller · Apr 9, 2006

When I use my backhoe, I usually lift the back wheels off the ground an inch or so. The reason being that usually after the first scoop or two their on the ground anyway as the outriggers have sunk into the ground. I would rather have an outrigger break off than put undo strain on the back axle of the tractor. Some of the functions of the backhoe on mine anyway can put a ton of force on the back axle on top of the weight of the tractor. I've lifted the front end of the tractor unknowingly on soft ground in the woods digging stumps out. The ground is soft enough that the outriggers sunk out of sight and the tractor hinged on the back axles. Call it missuse or whatever, it was done unintentionally, once I realized what happened, I would lift the backend up some more or move to get on more solid ground. I never intend to missuse my tractor but sometimes it happens.

Steve

KiotiJohn · Apr 9, 2006

( When I use my backhoe, I usually lift the back wheels off the ground an inch or so. )
Of course, you may use your tractor any way you wish, but Kioti states in their manuals to leave the rear wheels on the ground for extra support. The backhoe stabilizers are not heavy-duty enough to support all of the tractor's weight and the stresses of the digging.
You're not really putting that much stress on the axle if you have the stabilizers down firmly without lifting the tractor, and you'll be protecting the stabilizers from undue stress. The stress to the axle is spread out evenly across it if you don't have it lifted.
John

IslandTractor · Apr 10, 2006

I would echo KiotiJohn's point but also add that having the rear wheels on the ground (or the FEL dug in solidly) is a good idea to prevent twisting the stabilizers when you curl the bucket and "drag" the tractor backwards. That sort of stress on the stabilizers would not be good. They are really designed to prevent the tractor from tipping sideways and I doubt they are engineered to act as anchors as well.

chelydra · Apr 11, 2006

I'm finding this discussion as useful as usual for this group - combining guidance and moral support.

I drive the BH pretty hard (though never above 2000 RPM - that's already a lot of power!), and generally press down the stabilizers about enough to raise the wheels by half an inch an inch or so. So the tires aren't anywhere near off the ground, just unloaded by a few hundred pounds. This lets me use the parking brake to hold against dragging, while making the whole thing more stable. I've never actually lifted the rear wheels; seems unnecessary and risky for the machine.

Now if I could just figure out why the loader creaks so much since the dealer's first 50-hour service. he says it's OK, so I hope that if anything breaks, it happens w/in warranty.

On a slightly related topic, what do people do for grease guns? I had to bend the end of mine to reach the lower BH swing pivot zerk. Seems like there ought to be a more elegant solution.

Thanks as always-

Chelydra

(Attached pic is a 200-lb yew getting a ride to a new location. Bit tippy unless I load a log or some dirt up front, but minimizes handling so best for rootlets.)

coasterez · Apr 12, 2006

I use a flexible hose end on my grease gun. Fits into most places. But a shorter "head" would be useful for tight right angle applications. Also, the single hand trigger gun is more convenient when you have to use one hand to hold the head tight to the zerk.

KiotiJohn · Apr 12, 2006

Chelydra, do yourself a favor and order this air grease gun from Harbor Freight: Grease Gun Fun

It comes with a metal fixed and a flexible hose. I bought one two years ago for my CK20HST, and it's a great gun. Only $11.99 still.

If you don't have a compressor, Harbor Freight has them on sale all the time. You don't need a really big one, just get an 8 gallon or so, usually less than $100 at HF.

For an inexpensive gun, this one is surprisingly good. I rarely ever have to pump out air pockets, but it's easy to accomplish if you need to with this gun.
John