CK 30 Hydraulic problem

Kiotikarl · Aug 30, 2011

I have a 2010 CK30 gear TLB with a hydraulic problem. When cold the tractor can lift a bucket of dirt with the fel no problem, digging power of BH is good. Once the tractor is warmed up ( after 20min) the tractor has less strength and can barely handle a bucket of sand with the BH, making excavating very frustrating

Cold the tractor pressure is 2700psi at 2200rpm
Warm/hot pressure is still 2700psi at 2200rpm.
The tractor has now 217hrs, problem started around 203hrs but is getting worst.
When the tractor is warm/hot the hydralics are noisier, sound resembles that of the HST whine in reverse. The tube that connects below the pump going to the side of the joystick control valve vibrates terribly when the noise is present. The 2 bolts attaching the pipe below the pump seem oily, bolts were not loose, and it's kind of hard to see where the leakage is from cause i can't see through the loader brackets.
I have the repair manual, but need help with this one:confused3:
Called the dealer i purchased the tractor from, says it's normal for it to be noisy ( never has been noisy in 200hr, why now?) , but can't really comment on the strengh of the hydralic problem. 3 weeks without news, and i'm starting to really need my tractor bad:smiley_aafz:
Could the pump be in trouble

Hard Knocks · Aug 30, 2011

Did you take it in for warranty evaluation? You should not have to worry about this when it is still under warranty.

steve0413 · Aug 30, 2011

I had to replace that tube on my DK45 after 250+ hrs. I could tell it had a leak but couldn't tell where until I removed it. There was a weak spot just below the first bend. The spot had been painted over which told me it was a defect and Kioti agreed. At least on the DK, there are several bends in that tube and it looked to me as though some of them could cause a restriction. I'm just wondering if that may be part of your problem. Is it possible you may have contacted something that caused the bends to restrict even more? Sorry I don't have any answers, but hope this gives you something to think about and look at. Good luck.

Kiotikarl · Aug 30, 2011

The tractor is still on warranty, but the dealer is 3.5hrs away. When i purchased the tractor, the saleman kept telling me of how great their service is, and an AT HOME service. But when i called,... well your pretty far away, you have to wait till we get other road service in your area.:shocked: So looks like its up to me to find out whats wrong.

Hard Knocks · Aug 30, 2011

Is that the closest dealer to you? You should not be forced to deal with this issue on your own. Any Kioti dealer canlook at this for you.

Kiotikarl · Aug 30, 2011

The other closest dealer is 2.5-3hr away, service is pretty lame, long time dealer that doesn't really know his products. ( My dad bought his DK45SEC at this dealer. Had never heard of the reverse squeal problem on DKs. And you always end up with a bill even under warranty.)

bluechip · Aug 31, 2011

Where are you checking the pressure? If you are holding pressures you indicate both hot and cold, I would not imediately suspect the pump. Possibly leakage at a Pressure releif valve, oil gets thinner when warmer, but any leak should also show a drop in pressure, as indicated by your attachments. unless you are testing right at the pump and the other components are not being tested. There are PR valves in the loader and in the backhoe, as well as the tractor itself, with an open center system the oil is flowing through all 3 all the time (when the backhoe is in the circuit). Do you use loader function when you are not running the backhoe at all?

Kiotikarl · Aug 31, 2011

bluechip said:
Where are you checking the pressure? If you are holding pressures you indicate both hot and cold, I would not imediately suspect the pump. Possibly leakage at a Pressure releif valve, oil gets thinner when warmer, but any leak should also show a drop in pressure, as indicated by your attachments. unless you are testing right at the pump and the other components are not being tested. There are PR valves in the loader and in the backhoe, as well as the tractor itself, with an open center system the oil is flowing through all 3 all the time (when the backhoe is in the circuit). Do you use loader function when you are not running the backhoe at all?

I check the pressure at the rear remote A outlet. This is where the dealer says to check it.
Also i either use the BH or the loader, never both at the same time, and shut the rear remote in the neutre position whenever i don't use the BH even when repositioning the tractor.
The pressure is 2700psi hot/cold, and holds for a few secounds, then drops to 2200-2500psi when the relief valve opens, and raises to 2600-2700psi once the valve closes.

Kiotikarl · Sep 1, 2011

Called the dealer again today...says he's waiting for kioti to call him back

meanwhile im stuck having to work with a defective piece of equipement, hope it doesn't make things worst

I'm starting to lose confidence with kioti tractors, sold my DK45SEC cause kioti doesn't really where they are heading with the reverse squeal problem. And now,.. more hydraulic issues, but this time with my CK30. Not saying kioti tractors are bad products, but someone somewhere is sitting on his @$$ and leaving consumers waiting. :thumbdown:

wallace · Sep 1, 2011

When was the last time you had the fluid and filter changed?
I would start by replacing the filters. Maybe even the oil if its not a good quality oil.

Mousefield · Sep 1, 2011

Kiotikarl said:
Called the dealer again today...says he's waiting for kioti to call him back meanwhile im stuck having to work with a defective piece of equipement, hope it doesn't make things worst
I'm starting to lose confidence with kioti tractors, sold my DK45SEC cause kioti doesn't really where they are heading with the reverse squeal problem. And now,.. more hydraulic issues, but this time with my CK30. Not saying kioti tractors are bad products, but someone somewhere is sitting on his @$$ and leaving consumers waiting. :thumbdown:

I would call the dealer and HAVE him address the situation promptly. I do believe you can, nicely, be pleasantly persistent and assertive. Ask for the Kioti reps name and phone number. Don't be too harsh but I find if I am not getting the service then I do stick up for myself. When, 13 years ago, we were given several dates when hydro was going to run the wires on 6 poles for us and they kept postponing it. I called the office and asked for their address, said I was going to come and sit in the managers office until we got our power hooked up, got a return call within 1/2 hour that it would be done in about a week. In 3 days they came out and did the work, wasn't nasty

but not ready to take it any more.

Kiotikarl · Sep 1, 2011

wallace said:
When was the last time you had the fluid and filter changed?
I would start by replacing the filters. Maybe even the oil if its not a good quality oil.

Last maintenance was 200hr engine oil and filter and fuel filter, 50hr service everything was flushed and all filters replaced including fuel filter. Hydraulic oil is shell donax TD, all kioti filters. If this could be a cause of my problem, why didn't the dealer ask me about the last maintenace

I have all the filters and oil for a complete flush, but if this doesn't change anything it's 300$ down the drain.

Kiotikarl · Sep 1, 2011

Mousefield said:
I would call the dealer and HAVE him address the situation promptly. I do believe you can, nicely, be pleasantly persistent and assertive. Ask for the Kioti reps name and phone number. Don't be too harsh but I find if I am not getting the service then I do stick up for myself. When, 13 years ago, we were given several dates when hydro was going to run the wires on 6 poles for us and they kept postponing it. I called the office and asked for their address, said I was going to come and sit in the managers office until we got our power hooked up, got a return call within 1/2 hour that it would be done in about a week. In 3 days they came out and did the work, wasn't nasty but not ready to take it any more.

I'll give the dealer till monday, no news on monday... e-mail kioti service customer care.

DrewL · Sep 4, 2011

Is the backhoe still on the machine or have you taken it off?

Kiotikarl · Sep 4, 2011

DrewL said:
Is the backhoe still on the machine or have you taken it off?

The BH is still on the tractor, have disconnected the BH hoses but no difference, i think the problem is on the tractor. The BH is only 3 weeks old, as of today 15hrs on it.

dfkrug · Sep 5, 2011

Kiotikarl said:
I check the pressure at the rear remote A outlet. This is where the dealer says to check it.
Also i either use the BH or the loader, never both at the same time, and shut the rear remote in the neutre position whenever i don't use the BH even when repositioning the tractor.
The pressure is 2700psi hot/cold, and holds for a few secounds, then drops to 2200-2500psi when the relief valve opens, and raises to 2600-2700psi once the valve closes.

That's interesting. Do you know your hyd pressure is about 150psi higher
than spec?

Your tractor has only one relief valve, and it's on the FEL valve, under the
right floorboard. (The hoe has one, too, but you said you removed it.)
Take it out and get a good look at it...it is very easy. You might also
turn out the adjuster a bit to get back to spec.

If you touch it when doing your pressure test, you will prob feel some
serious vibration when it opens. Is it constant?

Coyote machine · Sep 5, 2011

Kiotikarl,

Don't give up on Kioti tractors because there are a few problems. ALL tractor manufacturers have some problems with their product line, and I know that doesn't fix your concerns, but it does level the field to all of us having to work with what we have.
If you hadn't done a recent filter and fluid change it might make sense to change them, but it sounds like something beyond a simple filter and fluid change, IMHO.

I would definitely get your selling dealer on board fixing the problem for you under warranty. And in addition to contacting Kioti C. Service by phone, and email, I would write them a letter, something they cannot ignore like a phone call. Documenting everything via written word is in your best interest.

Do not give up or in to their dismissal of the issue- especially on the dealer level. Ask them why now it makes noise when it never did before, etc.

Good luck,

Post back results.

Kiotikarl · Sep 5, 2011

dfkrug said:
That's interesting. Do you know your hyd pressure is about 150psi higher
than spec?

Your tractor has only one relief valve, and it's on the FEL valve, under the
right floorboard. (The hoe has one, too, but your said you removed it.)
Take it out and get a good look at it...it is very easy. You might also
turn in the adjuster a bit to get back to spec.

If you touch it when doing your pressure test, you will prob feel some
serious vibration when it opens. Is it constant?

Thanks for the info, I will adjuste the pressure to spec, funning thing is. the dealer did ajuste it to what it is when doing the 50hr service

I have the workshop manual so i should be able to do this

Anytime the hydralics are working hard ie; lifting a bucket of gravel, excavating, i can feel and hear the vibration on the tube that goes from the pump to the valve. When the valve opens its only worst

feels like something gonna fly out of somewhere:laughing:

Kiotikarl · Sep 5, 2011

Coyote machine said:
Kiotikarl,

Don't give up on Kioti tractors because there are a few problems. ALL tractor manufacturers have some problems with their product line, and I know that doesn't fix your concerns, but it does level the field to all of us having to work with what we have.
If you hadn't done a recent filter and fluid change it might make sense to change them, but it sounds like something beyond a simple filter and fluid change, IMHO.

I would definitely get your selling dealer on board fixing the problem for you under warranty. And in addition to contacting Kioti C. Service by phone, and email, I would write them a letter, something they cannot ignore like a phone call. Documenting everything via written word is in your best interest.

Do not give up or in to their dismissal of the issue- especially on the dealer level. Ask them why now it makes noise when it never did before, etc.

Good luck,

Post back results.

I won't give up on kioti tractors, trust me i had so many problems with my NH TC45 supersuite cab that i could write about it for pages and pages:laughing: But the dealer had the greatest service you could wish for, wounder why

I will turn pressure to spec later today and call the dealer tomorrow (closed for labour day) and i want answers, solutions.

Then i email kioti, i know that the dealer doesn't want that, and Kioti takes good care of consumer satisfaction in most cases, and kinda bangs on the dealer's head when people have to contact them to get answers.
Anyways, i'll post back results, updates.