Civic Duty

[valley]

When I worked for the county I wanted to serve on a jury but they always got me off. Now I get summons one after another. Last month I had two summons a week apart both letters came a week apart. The trials have always been settled and I have never served.
There was a time when everyone served without pay like a town hall meeting. Now everyone is paid except the juror and he or she may serve under duress.

 

[ronjhall]

About 15 years ago I got 3 different summons in less than 3 years. 2 for the Federal court in Detroit. 1 for the county. Sat on one jury for over a week. When it came time to deliberate I was chosen as the alternate juror and sent home. Kind of a waste of my time.
The other calls ended up being a waste of my time. Luckily my company made up the difference in pay when on jury duty.
Since I retired I got one call for jury duty while we were wintering in the south. Sent in a request for different date. They accepted but have never called me again.
I enjoyed being on the jury. Would do it again if I got another summons when I am not traveling.

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

I've been called to serve in the pool about 8 times in 12 years.
summoned twice -- once as alternate and once dismissed from selection.
only one of these times has my supervisor requested I be excused from the pook due to a major project going on - and while I understood the stated logic, it bugged me because I knew she did it because she does not believe in serving herself, so she could not tolerate the idea that I might actually get called.
OT - I read Starship Troopers at 14 or 15 and enlisted at 17, because i, too, agreed with the idea of "earning my rights". I also noted the bit in the book where it talked about people who did not want to be citizens because of the resposibiliies associated with it.

 

[riptides]

I for one am grateful that I can have a jury of "my peers" available should I get into some trouble. I am glad they are from "all walks of life". I am glad that they may not be happy being there, that "may" afford me some clear thought from them. And I am glad to be a citizen of this country with no strings attached. I think others have afforded me this citizenship and I am grateful for it, and them.

 

[20 20]

So lets say you serve your duty, you're mad because it was your time wasted etc. Now the trial is over and Slappy the criminal gets a slap on the wrist any way. IT is an overall waste in the end because of a messed up justice system. I feel for the {honest} police officers in this country. They throw themselfs out there to protect and serve, just to watch a system with a boat load of loop holes set half these_______ free or atleast with a very unjust sentence. The whole kitankobotal needs a MAJOR overhaul!!!!

Riptides; YOUR NUTZ

 

[dmccarty]

I think that we give rights and privileges away too cheaply in this country. Robert Heinlein wrote a book called Starship Troopers in which the were two types of citizens; those who could vote and those who could not. In this book the only way to getting voting rights was to have served in the Military or some other form of public service. How interesting it would be to have a systems were our "rights" were earned rather then granted.

Well I will be danged!

I was thinking of Starship Troopers early in this thread but did not mention it.

The framers had long discussions on who should be a citizen. One of the ideas was that you had to own property to be able to vote but that idea was eventually discarded. Another concern of the framers was the possibility of the voters forming a block that would enrich themselves via taxes at the expense of a smaller group of citizens.

As I get older I think I start to lean towards the requirement to own property to vote but on the other hand I would think most of the voters in my county are land owners and they are still daft.

The more I chew over our Constitution the more I think the founders got it right the first time.

By the way do not bother renting the Starship Troopers movie. The only think it has in common with the book is the title. The book basically has two sections. One is the political discourse concerning citizenship and service. The second part of the book is regarding fighting the insect like aliens by humans in powered armor suits. "Bugs, Mr. Rico. Zillions of em!"

Starship Troopers - Wikiquote has some typical Heinlein character dialog/quotes. I may have to go dig the book out of the box in the barn. The link says that Starship Troopers is the only SF book on the reading list at four of the five military academies. I never knew that one.

Starship Troopers is a very short book. It can't be much more than 200 pages but it has some very interesting ideas. Heinlein would have a field day with PC if he was still alive.

Later,
Dan

 

[riptides]

Heard in a court room -

Judge - "Can you think of any reason why you should not be selected?"

Potential Juror - "No, they would not be here if they were not guilty."

 

[buckeyefarmer]

The more I chew over our Constitution the more I think the founders got it right the first time.

But lawyers and judges sure have messed that up. Criminals and Illegals have more rights than those that follow the law.

 

[Sigarms]

Personally, never been called for jury duty.

Funny story, the police today thought perhaps something happened to my father (he was up fishing around lake Erie and no one in town knew about it). They ended up getting into the house to call my wife, who called me, in turn, I called my dads fishing buddy whose cell phone number I have. They (dad and his buddies) were on the way back home (my dad in another vehicle). I told my dad's buddy about the police story and the call. Talked with my dad tonight, and he thought I was playing a practicle joke telling his buddy the police had to "break into" his house (small town does has its advantages).

Reason why I mentioned this was because after our conversation about the hoopla surrounding his wearabouts, he mentioned to me that my mom just got a summons in the mail to be on Jury duty.

My mom has been dead for a good five years now.

 

[2manyrocks]

Shouldn't stop her from voting in several jurisdictions.....

 

[Willl]

The framers

Who are the "framers" ?

 

[2manyrocks]

The framers are the men who thought out the Constitutional framework on which this nation's government is built. Their work is a remarkable accomplishment and is deserving of great appreciation and respect.

 

[dmccarty]

Who are the "framers" ?

Adams, Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, Hancock, etc. Many/Most of the signers of the Declaration of Independence went on to be the creators/framers of the US Constitution. They debated in secret close door meetings during a hot summer in Philadelphia, PA on the framework of the Federal government. What they created is 200+ years ago is what IS the US.

Many of the topics they debated and solutions to those topics are still very relevant today. These men really understood and tried to control human foibles. They created a framework that so far, for the most part, has prevented a minority of the people from forever over powering a majority of the people and vice versa.

Part of our Federal framework is the Senate is elected to 6 years and House members for 2. The Senate provides stability while the House provides volatility. Before the Constitution was changed, Senators were elected by the state legislature while the House members were and still are elected by direct citizen votes. This difference was to slow down or moderate bills to be passed into law. There needed to be a balance between allowing rash, emotional decisions by the people which while they might be valid needed to be slowed down. Thus the Senate was created to provide stability and longevity compared to the House. But at the same time the will of the people needed to be represented and a single house like the Senate was not a good answer either. Its a balance of powers between the Legislative Branch.

Phrases like "Sign you John Hancock" or "I need your John Hancock" are derived from how John Hancock signed the Declaration of Independence. He signed his name so that it was very large and very prominent.

What people don't understand any more is that signing the Declaration of Independence was an act of TREASON against the King. Any signer was by definition a TRAITOR which meant a death sentence. When the writers of the Declaration signed the document they put all of their worth, their family, and their own lives on the line. They in effect signed their own death warrants.

There only way to live was to win the war.

How many people in Congress would do this today?

How many of your fellow citizens would do this today?

Later,
Dan

 

[dave1949]

How many people in Congress would do this today? Maybe 25 out of 535? You are making me sad!

How many of your fellow citizens would do this today? Good question.

Dave.

 

[2manyrocks]

If you also look at what the signers of the Declaration of Independence also lost in the war--they made real personal sacrifices. These guys were deep thinkers and yet so practical. I don't think any later generation could equal them if they had been called upon to write the Constitution.

 

[Willl]

What people don't understand any more is that signing the Declaration of Independence was an act of TREASON against the King. Any signer was by definition a TRAITOR which meant a death sentence. When the writers of the Declaration signed the document they put all of their worth, their family, and their own lives on the line. They in effect signed their own death warrants.

Wow, Dan, you just typed words, I, as a USA high school grad, have never heard of.

And the more I think about it, the more it torques my cookie.....

 

[dave1949]

Wow, Dan, you just typed words, I, as a USA high school grad, have never heard of.

And the more I think about it, the more it torques my cookie.....

I have no idea about current history course content in high school. I can tell you back in the mid-sixties, what they taught had very little connection to reality. Of course, most people, including myself, don't come to realize what was left out or shaded/slanted until they are older. You probably have lots of company.
Dave.

 

[Bird]

I have no idea about current history course content in high school. I can tell you back in the mid-sixties, what they taught had very little connection to reality. Of course, most people, including myself, don't come to realize what was left out or shaded/slanted until they are older. You probably have lots of company.
Dave.

You're right, Dave, and the same applies to the mid-50s.

 

[2manyrocks]

It's a difficult subject to teach because it is both conceptual, philosophical and historical in nature. For me, much of what is in the U.S. Constitution is in reaction to the experiences they had encountered in England. If I remember correctly, the puritans, for example, were for a time banned from preaching in England under the Dissenter's Act. Specifically, I am thinking of Stephen Charnock whose book The Existence and Attributes of God is still in print. In simple concept, then we see the reaction in the US Constitution forbidding the government from establishing a one state religion to the exclusion of others, an assurance of freedom of speech and an assurance of freedom of assembly.