Choice: food or solar fields

Hay Dude · May 27, 2022

jyoutz said:
You don’t own a power company utility, so what you would rather do is irrelevant. The power companies made their informed business choices on their mix of power generation sources and it works well. There will not be rolling black outs across this country due to renewables or anything else, short of local things like wildfire and weather events that damage infrastructure. You see, power companies build something that they call redundancies into their systems. They spend quite a bit more time and engineering into their systems. But I suppose you think you know better than their legions of engineers.

What I do know is they are HIGHLY regulated and THAT factors into their decisions. Only a dolt would believe otherwise

Hay Dude · May 27, 2022

jyoutz said:
Ahh. Another conspiracy. Explains everything.

If thats a conspiracy to you, then I wish you luck. Seriously, you would be beyond naive or watching much too much CNN to believe otherwise

Hay Dude · May 27, 2022

jyoutz said:
The most daunting challenge for nuclear power is than no state will commit to hosting waste disposal facilities. Nobody wants that. It was even opposed at yucca mountain in the Nevada desert.

The right kind of nuclear energy minimizes this problem.

We’re too stuck on destroying the environment by extracting millions of barrels of oil to build & import Chinese solar panels and off shore built windmills across the ocean on huge oil burning, pollution belching ships to see domestic energy production is actually less harmful to the environment.

MossRoad · May 27, 2022

Hay Dude said:
...

I remember your claims last year of gas only being up .13 cents a gallon, yet I’d show you dated photographs of pump prices up a dollar a gallon, so you read what you want to read.
...

Apparently you don't remember that conversation very well, or in context either.

jyoutz · May 27, 2022

Hay Dude said:
The right kind of nuclear energy minimizes this problem.

We’re too stuck on destroying the environment by extracting millions of barrels of oil to build & import Chinese solar panels and off shore built windmills across the ocean on huge oil burning, pollution belching ships to see domestic energy production is actually less harmful to the environment.

Maybe they could build a waste disposal facility in PA?

MossRoad · May 27, 2022

Hay Dude said:
Before I exit this thread, when you cite your “unbiased” sources, I want you to know I do believe oil companies are partially to blame using profiteering. But also believe their “vehicle” for profiteering is the policies coming from DC. They are using the aggressive policies towards destroying them as an excuse to raise prices.

The bear has been poked and now the bear is butchering the American people. I firmly believe if previous policies were still in place, we would see some increase in oil prices, but nothing compared to what’s going on now.

I remember your claims last year of gas only being up .13 cents a gallon, yet I’d show you dated photographs of pump prices up a dollar a gallon, so you read what you want to read.

I can see with my eyes very clearly what is REALLY going on. It’s negative policy towards fossil fuels and yes, some economic forces and some profiteering.

Here's where you first took it out of context back in June of 2021, and I pointed that out to you. Since then, you've reverted to that conversation on several occasions, never noting that yes, you took it completely out of context, as you did yet again today.

Fuel prices around the world.

I absolutely understand what an increase in fuel prices can do to someone with a business that relies on fuel. You have to pass the cost on to the customer, the customer can't afford it or won't pay, etc... and down goes your profit margin. If it gets to the point you're not making enough to...

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dmccarty · May 27, 2022

jyoutz said:
I’m sure that you’re rooting for that to happen. We have never experienced a rolling blackout in my state even with 36% of power from renewables. The only blackouts we ever experienced in the past 20 years were due to weather events such as snow storms, wind storms, tornadoes, substations failing…. Those rolling blackouts always seem to happen in the same places, indicating those areas have other issues with their power grid.

The charge to renewables is most certainly going to cause power supply issues, increased power costs, and will lead to rolling blackouts.

From one of several reports on the subject from The Wall Street Journal, Electricity Shortage Warnings Grow Across U.S.

From California to Texas to Indiana, electric-grid operators are warning that power-generating capacity is struggling to keep up with demand, a gap that could lead to rolling blackouts during heat waves or other peak periods as soon as this year.

California’s grid operator said Friday that it anticipates a shortfall in supplies this summer, especially if extreme heat, wildfires or delays in bringing new power sources online exacerbate the constraints. The Midcontinent Independent System Operator, or MISO, which oversees a large regional grid spanning much of the Midwest, said late last month that capacity shortages may force it to take emergency measures to meet summer demand and flagged the risk of outages. In Texas, where a number of power plants lately went offline for maintenance, the grid operator warned of tight conditions during a heat wave expected to last into the next week.

The risk of electricity shortages is rising throughout the U.S. as traditional power plants are being retired more quickly than they can be replaced by renewable energy and battery storage. Power grids are feeling the strain as the U.S. makes a historic transition from conventional power plants fueled by coal and natural gas to cleaner forms of energy such as wind and solar power, and aging nuclear plants are slated for retirement in many parts of the country.

The MISO, mentioned above, will take out of service by 2024, 13GW of power production and replace it with 8GW. That is going to be a disaster for people living in the grid area which goes from Canada down to Louisiana. New York is shutting down politically incorrect power production, and if they get temperatures in the mid to high 90's this summer, they will have blackouts.

In Europe, they have increased their dependency on power generated by natural gas by shutting down coal, oil and nuke power plants. At the same time, some countries, have prevented exploration or gas extraction from known fields, which has made these countries completely dependent on natural gas from Russia. This has also increased demand on natural gas for power production when the wind does not blow and the sun does not shine. Which happened last fall and winter. This led to very high increases of natural gas prices in much of Europe as well as the follow on increase in prices for power. The political "leadership" that made this mess is now shuffling around tax payer money to help pay for people's higher energy bills.

Putin's War is partly due to Europe's dependency on Russian natural gas. The German and other counties political class has allowed and encouraged this Russian gas dependency by shutting down other sources of continuous power production while increasing renewable but interment power production. They have put themselves between a rock and a hard spot with no real way out. They ARE going to have power shortages and likely black outs next winter if Putin's War continues. There will be a big push from some European countries to end Putin's War, to the detriment of Ukraine, so that the EU economy does not suffer, much less have people freeze and starve. The Irish Minister of the Environment tried to ban all burning of peat, coal and wood by this September even though 30-50% of the population uses those fuels to stay warm and there are no alternatives.

OzarkChris · May 27, 2022

PuffyC said:
You miss the point. The point is if people are going to get on their sanctimonious high horse about how awful so-called clean energy is, why are they not concerned with how awful the impacts of petroleum are, which are several orders of magnitude worse? The point is you can't give up on trying to get better because today's better solution isn't perfect. The point is that if we know nothing else it's that we can't keep doing what we've been doing.

To complain about the environmental damage caused by 'clean energy' is so utterly absurd compared to what we've been doing for decades with oil and gas it makes me shudder. What we call 'clean energy' has a lot of issues - anyone even remotely knowledgeable about the topic understands this already - but we're getting better every day. If you're going to take a stand against it at least offer up a legitimate argument, and maybe offer up a better solution as well. Pointing out that clean energy isn't 100% clean, something everyone already knows, isn't going to cut it.

You have some valid points. However, the thing I really dislike from the green activists (I am NOT implying that you are one) is how "they" can't see the forest through the trees.

**** As he carefully pulls out his soap box, dusts it off and stands on it once again ****

Let me explain, during this administration we have slit our own throats by taking us from energy independence (a net exporter of fossil fuels) to being dependant on, by our quoted, enemies for the energy we require for day to day functions.

The answer, "We need to go to a green energy source". Great! Wait a minute though, will the infrastructure support this? Well "Not yet". Do we have "Everything" in place to flip that switch? Well, "Not yet". Have we even looked at the feasibility of using "Electric this & that" in areas outside the metropolitan areas? Well "Not Yet". Have we determined how much "Global Warming"/"Environmental impact" will be caused by taking up 1/3 - 1/2 of the land mass for PV's/Wind farms? Well "Not Yet".

Speaking of the amount of space required for this technology, have we determined where people will live, work, eat, etc when all of the available land is used for power generation? Well "Not Yet". Oh and by the way, where exactly does all this land come from? Imminent Domain? Don't you dare say you'll just take my land for "the better good". Bulldoze down every big city first and leave rural America alone!

I could go on and on, but will at least slow down for now. I know you asked for a plan. I believe we have one. It's called using our natural resources (oil, gas, coal etc) until that time we have everything in place to switch over. I'm not a climate denier but I also don't think the word is going to end in 4-5 years either. The environmental idiots have been saying the world is going to end for many, many years, and I'm sure some day that will be true but not in my lifetime, my children's lifetime or my next 10 generations lifetimes.

Seriously, people back in the 1800's were saying how the world was going to end. The Aztecs said the world was going to end. The crown in the 1400's said the world would tip over (end) if ships got to close to the edge of the world.

*** He carefully steps off his soap box, dusts it off and carefully puts it away until it is once again needed ***

So, stick with what we have (A 200+ year supply of energy) and "supplement" with this new technology until we get the bugs worked out - "Worldwide", then and only then, stop the flow and use of fossil fuels. In the meantime, renew leases, open Anwr, flood the market with oil & natural gas so the prices of fuel, electricity, etc will come down to reasonable levels again.

jyoutz · May 27, 2022

OzarkChris said:
You have some valid points. However, the thing I really dislike from the green activists (I am NOT implying that you are one) is how "they" can't see the forest through the trees.

**** As he carefully pulls out his soap box, dusts it off and stands on it once again ****

Let me explain, during this administration we have slit our own throats by taking us from energy independence (a net exporter of fossil fuels) to being dependant on, by our quoted, enemies for the energy we require for day to day functions.

The answer, "We need to go to a green energy source". Great! Wait a minute though, will the infrastructure support this? Well "Not yet". Do we have "Everything" in place to flip that switch? Well, "Not yet". Have we even looked at the feasibility of using "Electric this & that" in areas outside the metropolitan areas? Well "Not Yet". Have we determined how much "Global Warming"/"Environmental impact" will be caused by taking up 1/3 - 1/2 of the land mass for PV's/Wind farms? Well "Not Yet".

Speaking of the amount of space required for this technology, have we determined where people will live, work, eat, etc when all of the available land is used for power generation? Well "Not Yet". Oh and by the way, where exactly does all this land come from? Imminent Domain? Don't you dare say you'll just take my land for "the better good". Bulldoze down every big city first and leave rural America alone!

I could go on and on, but will at least slow down for now. I know you asked for a plan. I believe we have one. It's called using our natural resources (oil, gas, coal etc) until that time we have everything in place to switch over. I'm not a climate denier but I also don't think the word is going to end in 4-5 years either. The environmental idiots have been saying the world is going to end for many, many years, and I'm sure some day that will be true but not in my lifetime, my children's lifetime or my next 10 generations lifetimes.

Seriously, people back in the 1800's were saying how the world was going to end. The Aztecs said the world was going to end. The crown in the 1400's said the world would tip over (end) if ships got to close to the edge of the world.

*** He carefully steps off his soap box, dusts it off and carefully puts it away until it is once again needed ***

So, stick with what we have (A 200+ year supply of energy) and "supplement" with this new technology until we get the bugs worked out - "Worldwide", then and only then, stop the flow and use of fossil fuels. In the meantime, renew leases, open Anwr, flood the market with oil & natural gas so the prices of fuel, electricity, etc will come down to reasonable levels again.

Why are you claiming that the US used to be a net exporter and this has changed today? We are still producing the same amount of oil as in 2019. And we are still exporting (and importing) like in 2019. There was a big reduction in 2020/21 due to reduced demand due to Covid, but this year production is right at pre-Covid levels. These are facts.