Choice: food or solar fields

[MossRoad]

Folks, leave the political comments out of it, or the thread will be sent to the front porch/closed. Thanks.

 

[BravoXray]

Nope

Yep

 

[Hay Dude]

^^^yes^^^Theres a war on fossil fuels.

And THATS the cause of the higher pump prices and the higher pump prices make ALL products more expensive because EVERYTHING is produced and shipped with fossil fuels!

 

[MossRoad]

And THATS the cause of the higher pump prices and the higher pump prices make ALL products more expensive because EVERYTHING is produced and shipped with fossil fuels!

No, it's not. It's almost 100% supply and demand.

search for the following phrase:

"what's the cause of high fuel prices?"

 

[Hay Dude]

No, it's not. It's almost 100% supply and demand.

Oh, ok. If Forbes says so, it must be true.

I believe what I see, not what I read.

Supply on fuel is down suddenly 1.5 years ago and more than doubles in price starting a year ago and nobody thinks it has anything to do with policies?

 

[MossRoad]

I have several great reads on it, but will not post them due to they all start out with political headlines and then denounce politics as the cause. Search for yourself. It's supply and demand.

 

[MossRoad]

I believe what I see, not what I read.

Oooo, I've got some good zingers for that statement. But alas, no religion or politics.

Read, listen, look... it all points to supply and demand.

 

[Hay Dude]

No, it's not. It's almost 100% supply and demand.

search for the following phrase:

"what's the cause of high fuel prices?"

See above.
I believe what I see, not what I read. You can’t tell me the policy changes that happened 1.5 years ago has NOTHING to do with fuel prices.

 

[Hay Dude]

Folks, leave the political comments out of it, or the thread will be sent to the front porch/closed. Thanks.

It would be great to see it moved to Front Porch. It needs to be

 

[Hay Dude]

I’m sure that you’re rooting for that to happen. We have never experienced a rolling blackout in my state even with 36% of power from renewables. The only blackouts we ever experienced in the past 20 years were due to weather events such as snow storms, wind storms, tornadoes, substations failing…. Those rolling blackouts always seem to happen in the same places, indicating those areas have other issues with their power grid.

What an uncalled-for, irreverent comment to make. You really think I want people to suffer?

What I want to see is a dependable power grid for safety & security. Plenty of proof it won’t be just by looking up in the sky that clouds vastly reduce the efficacy of solar panels and no wind brings your majestic birds of prey-killing windmills to a grinding halt.
Paving productive farm fields and beautiful meadows where birds & animals nest with deserts of ugly chinese solar panels is your solution?
Plopping 500’ windmills, built mostly in other countries on top of mountain chains is another one of your solutions?

I’d rather remove some of the trillions of cubic feet of gas trapped under the ground and burn it as cleanly as possible in small concentrated power plant installations, or use the miracle of nuclear fission to power the future and preserve the beautiful majestic enviroment.

 

[MossRoad]

Oh, ok. If Forbes says so, it must be true.

I believe what I see, not what I read.

Supply on fuel is down suddenly 1.5 years ago and more than doubles in price starting a year ago and nobody thinks it has anything to do with policies?

There's no way possible that you could have read that article. I posted it, saw the political comments, edited it out, and you had already replied to it. Less than 60 seconds. Because it said Forbes, you immediately dismissed it without reading it. Well, that's why I offered the alternative to do the search yourself and see what other articles/evidence you come up with to support the position that it's not supply and demand driven.

By the way, the U.S. is not the largest producer of oil. The U.S. produces ZERO oil. All of the oil production in the U.S. is done by corporations that sell it on the open market to the highest bidder.

Despite high fuel prices, fuel consumption in the U.S. is climbing. High demand. No government control on prices that are set by private industry. Millions of acres of untapped oil leases that are already owned by the oil companies. As I mentioned before, there's still blood in the turnip (you and me) that the oil companies can squeeze for profit. So until people and companies and nations all over the world slow down their demand for oil, the price will continue to rise.

 

[Hay Dude]

Before I exit this thread, when you cite your “unbiased” sources, I want you to know I do believe oil companies are partially to blame using profiteering. But also believe their “vehicle” for profiteering is the policies coming from DC. They are using the aggressive policies towards destroying them as an excuse to raise prices.

The bear has been poked and now the bear is butchering the American people. I firmly believe if previous policies were still in place, we would see some increase in oil prices, but nothing compared to what’s going on now.

I remember your claims last year of gas only being up .13 cents a gallon, yet I’d show you dated photographs of pump prices up a dollar a gallon, so you read what you want to read.

I can see with my eyes very clearly what is REALLY going on. It’s negative policy towards fossil fuels and yes, some economic forces and some profiteering.

 

[jyoutz]

And THATS the cause of the higher pump prices and the higher pump prices make ALL products more expensive because EVERYTHING is produced and shipped with fossil fuels!

Ahh. Another conspiracy. Explains everything.

 

[jyoutz]

What an uncalled-for, irreverent comment to make. You really think I want people to suffer?

What I want to see is a dependable power grid for safety & security. Plenty of proof it won’t be just by looking up in the sky that clouds vastly reduce the efficacy of solar panels and no wind brings your majestic birds of prey-killing windmills to a grinding halt.
Paving productive farm fields and beautiful meadows where birds & animals nest with deserts of ugly chinese solar panels is your solution?
Plopping 500’ windmills, built mostly in other countries on top of mountain chains is another one of your solutions?

I’d rather remove some of the trillions of cubic feet of gas trapped under the ground and burn it as cleanly as possible in small concentrated power plant installations, or use the miracle of nuclear fission to power the future and preserve the beautiful majestic enviroment.

You don’t own a power company utility, so what you would rather do is irrelevant. The power companies made their informed business choices on their mix of power generation sources and it works well. There will not be rolling black outs across this country due to renewables or anything else, short of local things like wildfire and weather events that damage infrastructure. You see, power companies build something that they call redundancies into their systems. They spend quite a bit more time and engineering into their systems. But I suppose you think you know better than their legions of engineers.

 

[Egon]

You don’t own a power company utility, so what you would rather do is irrelevant. The power companies made their informed business choices on their mix of power generation sources and it works well. There will not be rolling black outs across this country due to renewables or anything else, short of local things like wildfire and weather events that damage infrastructure. You see, power companies build something that they call redundancies into their systems. They spend quite a bit more time and engineering into their systems. But I suppose you think you know better than their legions of engineers.

Just recently did not Texas have a very cold period the caused power outages? It seems the conventional power sources failed whereas solar and wind kept functioning.

Keep in mind that oil fields have surface areas around well heads, surface area for transportation systems, surface area for refineries and storage. All these aspects of hydrocarbon also require many mined resource products for materials to build them. Consider how much steel and what type would be required for a bore hole 5000 feet deep that produced hydrocarbons containing hydrogen sulphide.

We should also be aware of damage to the environment from hydro carbon processing and use.

 

[jyoutz]

Just recently did not Texas have a very cold period the caused power outages? It seems the conventional power sources failed whereas solar and wind kept functioning.

Both natural gas and wind power failed. Because the systems weren’t designed for cold weather. It was a gamble those companies took to save money. Because it never gets cold there.

 

[PuffyC]

Just recently did not Texas have a very cold period the caused power outages? It seems the conventional power sources failed whereas solar and wind kept functioning.

Keep in mind that oil fields have surface areas around well heads, surface area for transportation systems, surface area for refineries and storage. All these aspects of hydrocarbon also require many mined resource products for materials to build them. Consider how much steel and what type would be required for a bore hole 5000 feet deep that produced hydrocarbons containing hydrogen sulphide.

We should also be aware of damage to the environment from hydro carbon processing and use.

The problems Texas had was because they failed to prepare the way they were told to. Because, you know, that would cost money and be hard and stuff. To their credit they’re a leader in clean energy. They generate more electricity with wind and solar than they do with coal, although about half comes from gas. Places like west Texas, where the only things that grow are rattlesnakes and tumbleweeds, are absolutely ideal for both wind and solar.

 

[Torvy]

No, it was the better choice based on the odds. You could prepare for tornadoes in Las Vegas, too, but they are so rare as to be non-existent. Hindsight is great and all, but the biggest problem with power generation in the US is the woeful lack of nuclear plants. Opposition is due to fear mongering and misinformation. Much of that is due to the misconception that 3 mile island caused a major disaster. The was virtually no impact to that other than the suspension of future nuclear plants in its wake. I've got little problem with wind and solar as supplements, but both are, and always will be, unable to produce power on a consistent basis.

 

[Egon]

Both natural gas and wind power failed. Because the systems weren’t designed for cold weather. It was a gamble those companies took to save money. Because it never gets cold there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis

Some information on the situation.

 

[jyoutz]

No, it was the better choice based on the odds. You could prepare for tornadoes in Las Vegas, too, but they are so rare as to be non-existent. Hindsight is great and all, but the biggest problem with power generation in the US is the woeful lack of nuclear plants. Opposition is due to fear mongering and misinformation. Much of that is due to the misconception that 3 mile island caused a major disaster. The was virtually no impact to that other than the suspension of future nuclear plants in its wake. I've got little problem with wind and solar as supplements, but both are, and always will be, unable to produce power on a consistent basis.

The most daunting challenge for nuclear power is than no state will commit to hosting waste disposal facilities. Nobody wants that. It was even opposed at yucca mountain in the Nevada desert.