Choice: food or solar fields

[MossRoad]

If someone wants to spend their own money they can cover a billion acres in solar panels for all I care. But most of this green feel good garbage that’s not actually green is tax payer subsidized.

So is agriculture.

 

[Egon]

We actually do not “Own” land. It is all rented By way of Taxes.
We actually purchase the right to use.

 

[forgeblast]

Back when Bill Clinton was president they apparently had money to burn. They implemented a farm program called CREP. It stood for conservation reserve enhance program. It was permanent set aside. You couldn’t farm, log it, mow it, just walk on it and hunt on it. As in NEVER. As a rule it was meant to keep silt out of the major rivers but it spread to smaller rivers when participation wasn’t big enough.

People often got paid through the CREP program a lot more than they paid for the ground. I wonder how long before the government pays these landowner to go back and start farming it.

Not permanent, we signed a 15 year lease could have done a 10 but the rate was better for 15. They cost share 1/2 the cost of trees and labor for planting in highly erodible land. We enrolled 3 acres in it and it will be done next year. We can do what we want with it once the lease is done. we were required to control invasives and have 75% of the trees survive. We were able to choose a variety of trees. For us it was a great program, we were able to repair and plant trees in an area that was difficult to mow and eroding yearly.

 

[Jstpssng]

Not permanent, we signed a 15 year lease could have done a 10 but the rate was better for 15. They cost share 1/2 the cost of trees and labor for planting in highly erodible land. We enrolled 3 acres in it and it will be done next year. We can do what we want with it once the lease is done. we were required to control invasives and have 75% of the trees survive. We were able to choose a variety of trees. For us it was a great program, we were able to repair and plant trees in an area that was difficult to mow and eroding yearly.

There were several of that type of programs over the years, funded by various methods. Some of the money you pay for firearms and fishing equipment goes to fund conservation programs.

 

[fishdrivel]

Well all i can say is wishful thinking doesn't make it so.

I won't add my thoughts on the water in the California Delta that I lived next to, fished on, boated almost every foot on while not commenting on water flow on the "West Cascades of Washington State"

 

[cqaigy2]

I won't add my thoughts on the water in the California Delta that I lived next to, fished on, boated almost every foot on while not commenting on water flow on the "West Cascades of Washington State"

Go ahead, but try to be somewhat logical about it. I should add, No we aren't shipping it down to you guys. You need to use what you have in a thoughtful manner. Maybe get rid of some of those lawns that are taking up so much water.

 

[Hay Dude]

So is agriculture.

Not mine.

 

[PuffyC]

In 2020 almost 40% of all farm income was government subsidies/handouts. In the past 25 years it’s totaled almost half a trillion dollars. If you had a stack of $100 bills that equaled half a trillion dollars it would literally reach higher than the International Space Station. If you made $50,000 a year and saved every penny, it would take you 10 million years to save half a trillion.

 

[MossRoad]

Not mine.

You sell to any dairy farmers?

 

[Hay Dude]

You sell to any dairy farmers?

Not any more. They all went under.
I get exactly ZERO money from the government for hay farming (other than the state of PA’s sales tax exemption on farm machinery)

 

[kenmbz]

California Delta has been hammered by water usage:

According to the new Environmental Impact Report (EIR/EIS) the reductions in fresh water flows will double outright violations of salinity standards along the San Joaquin River, and the lower Sacramento River, in addition to a 26 to 60 percent increase of salinity in habitat for fish, vegetation, and agricultural soils ...

And many of the islands are sinking 1-3" per year

 

[ruffdog]

Farming UNDER the solar panels.

Electric Farms Are Using Solar Power to Grow Profits and Crops

 

[Gee Ray]

Farming UNDER the solar panels.

Electric Farms Are Using Solar Power to Grow Profits and Crops

This might work but all the solar farms I have seen in Florida are to short to get under and stand up. I have been to 9 or ten of them all here in Florida. They all are built with heavy short I-beams uprights that are not conducive to working under. I have wondered why the panels are not set up higher so you could graze cattle or truck farm under them.

The first one I went to they leveled the field with heavy equipment before they put up the panels. Now they do not bother to level the fields. In fact the soil disturbance is kept to a minimum. Unless you count ripping the orange grove out as a big disturbance.

 

[DutchInNZ]

There are large solar farms within 10 miles of where I live. They are about 100 acres each. The farms and ranch lands aggregate in the tens of thousands of acres. A little perspective. They are also producing cheaper electricity than the older coal plants (now closed) used to produce. So let’s disregard the climate model discussion. The power is cheaper and cleaner.

Are these fields, as the very majority I know of, subsidised or tax-promoted compared to the plants they replace? If so, you are paying not less, but indirectly via-via and maybe more. In Germany, since they started the elimination of fossil plants and replacing them with solar fields and windmills, the cost of energy has risen by abt. 200%; the German people are now leading in paying the price per kWh in Europe, in spite of still having a, albeit by now slowly reduced, subsidisation. And, because of the unreliability of the green sources, fossil plants have to be maintained and kept running anyway. Nuclear is out of the question there because of the same irrealistic idealism.

 

[jyoutz]

Are these fields, as the very majority I know of, subsidised or tax-promoted compared to the plants they replace? If so, you are paying not less, but indirectly via-via and maybe more. In Germany, since they started the elimination of fossil plants and replacing them with solar fields and windmills, the cost of energy has risen by abt. 200%; the German people are now leading in paying the price per kWh in Europe, in spite of still having a, albeit by now slowly reduced, subsidisation. And, because of the unreliability of the green sources, fossil plants have to be maintained and kept running anyway. Nuclear is out of the question there because of the same irrealistic idealism.

Actually the subsidies went away a few years ago. The economics have changed a lot in the past 5 years. Coal is a very expensive fuel now: mining, truck transport to railway, haul away the toxic waste and disposal. My state replaced coal plants with natural gas turbines that run on piped fuel; no transport and toxic waste disposal expenses. The supplemental wind and solar power feed directly into the grid without a lot of additional activities. The economics of power generation have changed greatly in recent years.

 

[Hay Dude]

Actually the subsidies went away a few years ago. The economics have changed a lot in the past 5 years. Coal is a very expensive fuel now: mining, truck transport to railway, haul away the toxic waste and disposal. My state replaced coal plants with natural gas turbines that run on piped fuel; no transport and toxic waste disposal expenses. The supplemental wind and solar power feed directly into the grid without a lot of additional activities. The economics of power generation have changed greatly in recent years.

Except when the wind don't blow or the sun don’t shine, which is a lot of a typical 24 hour day.

Most times I drive west on I-70 across the mountains of western Maryland, the huge ugly windmills they built on the mountain sides are sitting still or moving painfully slow. Solar panels dont work in the dark and need massive banks of batteries to store energy. I see a lot of windmills down for blade replacement or maintenance. The bird slaughter from them is insane.
Token supplementation at best, with poor reliability due to darkness or no wind. Wind only producing 1.6% of my states electrical energy and thats with 27 wind farms running. Solar only producing .4% of electricity in my state.
Facts are stubborn things.

 

[jyoutz]

Except when the wind don't blow or the sun don’t shine, which is a lot of a typical 24 hour day.

Most times I drive west on I-70 across the mountains of western Maryland, the huge ugly windmills they built on the mountain sides are sitting still or moving painfully slow. Solar panels dont work in the dark and need massive banks of batteries to store energy. I see a lot of windmills down for blade replacement or maintenance. The bird slaughter from them is insane.
Token supplementation at best, with poor reliability due to darkness or no wind. Wind only producing 1.6% of my states electrical energy and thats with 27 wind farms running. Solar only producing .4% of electricity in my state.
Facts are stubborn things.

You missed the part where I mentioned natural gas turbines. Still the wind and solar produces 36% of the electricity used in the state. The commercial solar and wind farms have no battery storage; they feed directly into the transmission lines.


In 2021, renewable resources accounted for the largest share of New Mexico's in-state electricity generation, about 36% of power from utility-scale (1 megawatt or larger) facilities and a total of 37% from utility-scale and small-scale (less than 1 megawatt) facilities combined.
Homepage - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) › state › analysis

U.S. Energy Information Administration - Independent Statistics and Analysis​

 

[Hay Dude]

Yep, when the suns out and the wind is blowing. You have those in your state.

In mine, we got lots of gas. Enough in one deposit to supply the US for over 200 years. Not a lot of wind or sunny days to cover our natural beauty with imported solar panels or bird killing windmills.

 

[jyoutz]

Yep, when the suns out and the wind is blowing. You have those in your state.

In mine, we got lots of gas. Enough in one deposit to supply the US for over 200 years. Not a lot of wind or sunny days to cover our natural beauty with imported solar panels or bird killing windmills.

There is a huge wind farm in Somerset, PA

 

[Hay Dude]

There is a huge wind farm in Somerset, PA

Yeah, but it’s only 1 of the 27 producing only 1.6% of our electricity. They fall apart quickly and kill birds. Gas is the way here.
Your state is sunny & windy. Ours isn’t. You always talk as if everything that works for you in your area works for everyone else, everywhere else. ‘
It doesn’t.
Solar wont work in cloudy areas and wind wont work where theres little wind.