chinese tractors?

[goggleye57]

to begin with I don't know a lot about tractors. I have been looking into buying one to plow a little snow and put a wood splitter on. I looked at an 18 horse, twin cylinder chinese diesel tractor the other day. For around $4000 it looked like a lot of tractor. Can anyone share their experience with these tractors. Are they really a good deal? Or an invitation to a machinery money pit. would I be better off putting my money in about a 40-50 year old utility tractor? I could use some good advice.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I've restored antiques and generally they are great old pieces of machinery, but I tend to think that they are not as easy to use as new pieces of equipment.

Now if we look at a Chinese tractor, we are basically looking at newly produced old technology. Nothing fancy about them, just basic, almost rustic, workhorses.

Personally I would prefer to buy a tractor from someone who can get me parts, and can fix it. With an old tractor, that can be an iffy proposition. Ford 8Ns are easy to get any part for, so if you get one of those, you can get it fixed, even if you don't do the actual fixing. A Chinese tractor can be bought from one of several types of dealers. #1- Mail order. #2- Sales dealer, no parts/service. #3-Full service dealer. For me, I would only buy from a full service dealer. But if you are handy with a wrench, and know some basics, you might feel capable of fixing basic stuff.

Now, none of that actually answers your question. So to get to the answer, I guess I would opt for the Chinese tractor over the antique if I was actually doing some work with the machine. The new unit will have some safety features that the old iron wont have. The odds are the old unit will be a gas engine, I prefer diesel, which the Chinese tractor will have. Antique iron turns in a large radius, a new Chinese tractor will spin in a smaller circle. So I guess from a practical standpoint, I would opt for the Chinese tractor.

Now an 18hp Chinese tractor is pretty light in the hp department, and probably light in overall weight as well as being pretty small in size; for plowing snow I would certainly want 4 wheel drive. The lighter weight of the small Chinese unit will be at a serious disadvantage to the old tractor if it is only a 2 wheel drive model, so much of a disadvantage that it might not be worth using. The other issue to consider is the type of log splitter being used and if it requires a specific PTO hp to run a pump, or if it requires a hydraulic line so that may, or may not become an issue, but again that would depend on the splitter, and how it operates.

 

[johnk]

I hate to disagree with you about the weight of the Chinese tractor but my 22 Hp w/ loader weighs around 4000 pounds. Probably more than the New Hollands and Jd's for that particular Horse Power. Also the Hp is rated well below that of the big three. My 22 Hp with Koyker loader is rated somewhere around 1400# lifting capacity and around 2800 breakout. What are the big three rated for tis horsepower class??

Granted you have to be your own mechanic, but for the price you pay for the basic 4 wheel drive tractor you can't get a good Quad for the price. I had some issues with mine when first purchased but since have put on 140 hrs of pretty hard abuse and it seems to be running better with each chore.

Heres some pics on my website.

http://users.adelphia.net/~gizmo/

 

[jswisc]

I purchased a 20 h.p. 4wd Jinma w/ Koyker fel in April. I've got 100 hrs on it with some pretty hard use (post hole digger and grader box) and I've got to agree w/ the other posts in that it gets better each use. Shifting at first was a little stiff with no syncro and no shuttle, but now it shifts great and runs like a top. I've got a great dealer in Palmyra Wisconsin called Woodland Repair. He's been selling then for 5 years now. No need for service as of yet but he seems to really know these tractors. I think for the money, I'm very satisfied.

 

[usedcarz]

for the price, they are an excellent value, and most are trouble-free, other than simple, minor tasks. DEFINITELY recommend 4wd. i just sold my service shop, and won't be able to provide after-sale service like it should be, and have 3 tractors remaining for sale. all are priced just barely over dealer cost. one 284 LE, with koyker loader
one 224 LE with koyker loader, and one 224 LE, with turfs, no loader, one backhoe,(frame mount, still in crate), and one koyker loader still on pallet
located in northwest ohio if interested

 

[nanotech]

It sounds like johnk may have the tractor I am looking at buying, an Ag-King. I am also looking at a Farm Pro of the same class. I talked to a dealer in the Ag-King and he said the two were basically the same, except for a different label. What I do not understand is why the Ag-King is listed at 22hp and the Farm Pro is listed at 25hp. Would there be much of a difference in power performance.
The Koyker loader is listed on the Ag-King at 1500 pounds lifting power and the loading on the Farm Pro is only 850 pounds. So far this is the only real item that is making me tilt towards the Ag-King. Any comments?

 

[johnk]

Mine is a Jinma 2 cylinder 22 HP. It is like the ones USEDZ Cars in the previous post is selling.

 

[greg_g]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( he said the two were basically the same, except for a different label. What I do not understand is why the Ag-King is listed at 22hp and the Farm Pro is listed at 25hp. )</font>
What the guy probably meant was that they're ALL nothing more than re-badged Jinmas, wearing a variety of labels. TripleD for example seems to be selling the 20-45 hp range of Jinma. They're simply wearing AgKing decals (see http://www.tripleddd.com/Ag-King%20tractors.htm). Homier seems to have limited themselves to the 20 - 30 hp range. But they're still Jinmas, they just wear FarmPro decals (see http://www.farmprotractors.com/products.asp).

So the moral of the story is; when comparing AgKing and FarmPro, make sure you're comparing tractors of the same horsepower.

//greg//

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="blue"> I hate to disagree with you about the weight of the Chinese tractor but my 22 Hp w/ loader weighs around 4000 pounds. Probably more than the New Hollands and Jd's for that particular Horse Power. Also the Hp is rated well below that of the big three. </font>


John, feel free to disagree, but I think in this case you misunderstood what I wrote.

I was comparing the 18hp Chinese tractor to a 1950's or early 1960's antique. I've seen some Jinmas in the 25hp range, which I presume are larger than the 18hp tractor being referred to in the orginal post. I can tell you one thing for sure, they do not weigh anything close to an old chunk of American antique iron. I would also agree with you that Jinmas weigh more than just about any other comparable modern tractor based on what I've seen.

The original post asked about a Chinese tractor versus old iron. As many who read my posts, they know I own 2 of the big three brands, but I also dabble in restorations of antique Olivers. I simply tried to compare the old stuff to the new stuff, and I don't think I ever compared old to new Chinese to any of the big 3. If I left that impression, it was not my intent.

 

[johnk]

I probably did misunderstand what the intention of the post was. Been a long day!!!! Actually worked today........

John

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Antique iron turns in a large radius, a new Chinese tractor will spin in a smaller circle. )</font>

That's completely subjective. Has less to do with age of the iron, and more to do with the length of the tractor and the tire spacings.

My 50' JD-B trike will turn in-place with one brake stomped, and the front wheel on the steering pedistal turned full sideways.

Both my 8n and IH cub will also turn very tightly, again.. buy using r/l brakes I cammake a 1' inside circle with the inside rear tire onthe cub.. and about a 2' inside circle with the inside rear tire on my N.. mostly a function of length of the tractor for a 4 wheeled tractor.

My NH 1920 would turn on a locked rear tire, if it was in 4wd, and I stomped a single side brake. Of course, it was chewing up the grass in a 6' circle, and throwing rooster tails too.

Again.. very subjective..

Soundguy

 

[bluechip]

The Jinma product line is somewhat redundant and overlapping which causes some confusion. Cant resist this opportunity to clear (muddy?) the waters a bit.

The JM184 and JM204 2 cylinder are basically the same tractor, with identical engines that are rated at different RPM to achieve different HP ratings.
There is a 22HP two cylinder which is not too common, this engine is also used in the 25HP 2 cylinder which is even more rare. Nearly all 25/28HP machines here use 3 cylinder Y385 engine by Yangdong

The 184 is the four wheel drive version of the tractor Farm Pro uses for their 2420 20HP. It is only slightly smaller frame and has smaller tires than the 25HP (which is the same as the JM284, except rpm at which HP is calculated, likewise with the JM304 or Farm Pro 2430 and JM354).

Anyway, the JM184 is a workhorse, and is undervalued on the market at present, IMHO. Parts are widely available for this engine (TY290) and it is and has been used by many Chinese tractor manufacturers. Going by memory, I believe this engine is rated at 14.7KW which is about 19.5HP at 2300 (I think?) RPM.

Remember that higher HP at a higher RPM may or may not mean more torque, and it is torque that you use.

The new JM224 is nearly the same as the JM254/284 except it uses a different (smaller) YangDong Y380 engine, this engine is also used in the JM204 20HP 3 cylinder (rpm ratings again).

Because of the 12 different gear ratios available on the "200 series" Jinmas (and thier various trade names), the tractor is capable of some pretty impressive work. Just look for some of the posts users of this tractor have made in the past.

Best to see, drive what you are going to buy before you do, if possible.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Soundguy, you are absolutely correct that it is subjective.

I was basing my statement on simple turning radius of a small Jinma versus something like a 50's Ford 8N or similar sized utility tractor. I did that simply because I interpreted the original question as one which posed that type of comparision. Now I can get fancy and do some brake turns and tear up our yards, but the lovely Mrs_Bob gets angry with me when I do that that. Or we can pick something like a tricycle Farmall 100 or Oliver RC77 (we have lots of those machines in these parts at reasonable prices) but I didn't think that was the question asked. Maybe I misinterpreted the question? But my answer was based on a non-brake turn of a 50's/60's utility tractor versus a 18hp modern Jinma.

 

[SPIKER]

googleeye:

one thing you said was to use a wood splitter on that I'm thinking you want to use the tractor hydraulics for the wood splitter ?? if so then you will have to do some modifying to the tractcor (JINMAS) to get the required rear remote hook ups. you're dealer can do this for you maybe? and get it right? maybe Not sure of the dealer and as for the agkings not heard of them the farm pros do not come with rear remotes and I do not think they will add them for you. they are a mass seller only who usually do not actually DO the requried repair work but they do provide parts very quickly form what I'm told... I use a JM284 (28hp 4 wheel drive.) the frampro s use soem different numbers and do other dealers NORTRAC (northern tool) also sells and usually services them as well... anyhwo if you have a local dealer selling them and he services then he would be best bet even if the price is a bit higher... remember these are inexpensive units with good power for doing work...

plowing snow you NEED the 4 wheel drive... I would pop for a FEL too as they are nearly indespensable.

Mark m

 

[Soundguy]

( 50's/60's utility tractor versus a 18hp modern Jinma

It's still an apples to oranges comparison due to size. A utility tractor of the 50-60's era was a 27-40 hp tractor.. and sized accordingly.. with a wider stance and longer wheel base. That's not quite fair to compair it to a narrow, and shorter jm184. I recon my IH cub, without using brakes can make a tighter swing than a 184.. now we are compairing more the same size, width, and weight. In the end, the angle the front tires will rotate, the lenght of the wheelbase, the tire diameters, and the width of the tractor stance is what will dictate turn radious... and that will go for any non articulated 4 wheel machine.

As we both pointed out.. use of 4wd to assist in pulling the front around, or the use of steering brakes will tighten the turning radious considerably.

I see where you are coming from though..as poster asked for a comparison to a 50-60's antique...Hard to compair a small machine to a larger machine and still keep it all in perspective... especially for the tractor newbies that might be reading this, outside of the specific thread that started a few messages back. As you point out.. that antique iron was big, heavy, and very tough.. built to last, and when it wore out.. you could rebuild it in your barn with a hammer, torch, prybar, and a big set of sae wrenches. By the way.. I'm looking at an oliver 60 or 70.. and advice?

Soundguy

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Soundguy I agree that comparing a Ford 8N & similar type machine to a small Jinma is not apples-to-apples, but that is the way I read the original poster's question, so that is what I did. I think many people make this comparision, probably because those machines are so commonly used on 5 to 10 acres for mowing and other duties, and probably because those machines are still very commonly found. Heck, you can get parts at NAPA auto stores so that obviously tells you that people still are using & fixing them. And the prices are even lower than the new Jinmas.

You might want to move to the midwest if you want an Oliver, you can still fall over them up here! The 60's are far less common sights, but the 70's and 77's are pretty common. There is a tricycle 77 about 2 miles away from me that is still used for mowing each week on a few acres. The lovely Mrs_Bob reminded me that I don't need to restore anything right now because the "honey do" list is full of half completed projects she'd like to see done, but I have been seriously looking at Cletracs and Oliver crawlers (up until she kaboshed that!). Anyway, if I was going to do an Oliver 60-70 series machine, the one I'd look for is an "orchard" machine with the full streamlined look that encloses the wheels and to some extent the operators area. They are pretty darn rare, but absolutely beautiful when restored.

But for me, the top of the wish list to restore right now is the Oliver HG, followed closely by a Cletrac HG --by the way DiskDr has one in restorable shape for sale that I was looking at!!! You might want to give it a look. Surface rust everywhere, some body panels missing, but it appears to be structurally sound.

 

[Soundguy]

About 40 miles south of me there is a guy with an oliver 60 or 70.. trike.. looks good. Decent price. Also hase tow cases.. ones a Dc.. and the others a VC or vac.. one is wide front.. the other is trike. Trike is rougher.. but I like it..wide front loks restored. All decent prices... but like you point out.. the little lady has nixed a 'restore/project' tractor since I just recently got a new lawnmower ( NH 7610s w/ 10' mower.. )..

Still nice to look though..

Soundguy