Chevy Hybrid and flexfuel E85 ethanol

[asylum575]

First let me start by stating that my interest in alternative fuel is not as much environmental as it is political. Yeah, yeah I'd like a green Earth for my kids, but, what I would really like, is to stop our dependency on foreign oil which comes from unstable countries run by people that want to hurt us.
Ok, now lets talk trucks.
I have a 2006 Chevy Silverado 1500HD Crew cab with the 6.O engine and locking dif. It's a 2WD. Living In NY, I'd rather have a 4X4. I've had 4x4 trucks for 10 years prior to this one and even tough I've never been stuck with this one 4x4 would make me happier.
I thought I had read about a Hybrid Silverado. I can't find it on Chevy's website. The E85 flex fuel is not available in a 100 mile radius of me.
Is anyone offering a Hybrid truck?
Is the E85 fuel going to go nationwide?

 

[patrick_g]

GMC (I think but it may have been under the Chevy lable) claims to have a hybrid but it is NOT LIKE ANY REAL HYBRID.

The truck is a contractor special and the engine is set up to generate electrical power so you don't need a separate generator (if you aren't welding or have high draw.) The truck allows you to close and lock the doors with the engine running to make electricity and it has an alarm system (I think) to blow the horn when you are low on fuel. It will automatically shut down leaving you a reserve quantity of gas so you can make it to a station (don't recall the lower level where it shuts down or what the range would be after a convenience shutdown.)

It does not use an electric motor to assist propulsion. It is not a TRUE hybrid in the Toyota Prius sense by any stretch of the imagination. It may be a neat thing for a contractor or farmer/rancher who would otherwise carry a generator around a lot (like I do) but it is not going to be greener than a standard model nor get better mileage.

I considered that model but elected to buy an '08 F-250 diesel and use a hoist to load and unload a generator and not strain my back. My larger generator will power my stick welder. The truck in question wouldn't.

Pat

 

[Dallas_Lilly]

The Chevrolet "Light" Hybrid that Pat is talking about is was only available in the "Classic" 2007 Silverado and Sierra 1/2 Ton trucks. It is not available in the new body style. In the 2009 the Chevy trucks are supposed have a true hybrid system, it will be out in the 2008 Tahoe and Yukon. They do have electric propulsion at both city speeds and highway speeds. This is the hybrid system Hybrid Technology: Chevrolet Tahoe: Chevrolet
The 6.0L was not compatible with E85.

 

[dgl24087]

At this point in time, E85 is good for PR but not much else. Cost is higher and fuel economy is significantly lower. I have a 2007 Dodge Ram that Flex Fuel approved, EPA gasoline rating is 14/18, E85 rating is 9/13.

 

[asylum575]

Thanks for the quick replies.
I found the link for the Hybrid Pat mentioned. Here it is:
Hybrid Vortec 5.3L V8: Silverado Classic: Trucks: Chevrolet

Here is a link for E85 refueling stations
National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition
The nearest retail location is 102 miles away

Maybe i'll wait for 2009

Ed

 

[schmism]

I had a friend that had a tahoe that was E85 rated.

he said the fuel cost less, but the loss in the MPG was significant enough that you ended up burning more fuel anyway so there was no cost savings to it.

 

[KAB]

There will be a "2 mode" (full hybrid) available in the Tahoe this fall and expanding from there.

Check these sites:
GM - GMability Advanced Technology: Two-mode full-size hybrid SUV's
GM - GMability Advanced Technology: Hybrid Vehicles

Kurt

 

[dgl24087]

Did a little more research on E85. Costs about 15% less than gasoline by most accounts, and using my Dodge Ram as an example, fuel consumption increases 40%. Your mileage may vary.

 

[patrick_g]

What a great deal!!!! An alternative fuel that costs 15% less per gallon but you have to use 40% more of it. Seems funny that using 15% less petrochemicals reduces the price 15%, is the ethanol free? No, just subsidized as a part of a convoluted mish mash of politics, greed (is that redundant?) and misguided intentions that focus our efforts for the reduction of dependence on foreign oil in all the wrong places.

If ethanol provided only dilution and no energy then you should have to burn (roughly) 15% more fuel (with 15% ETHANOL CONTENT) but ethanol should make at least some contribution so I just can't get a handle on the reported percentages. They aren't off by just a little bit but A WHOLE LOT. Someone needs to explain this to me, I don't get it.

Anyway, so long as you have to consume at least as much petrochemicals to produce a gallon of ethanol as the gallon of ethanol replaces we aren't getting ahead in reducing the dependence on foreign oil and we aren't helping the environment so why are we so focused on doing more of something that isn't really helping? Shouldn't we be trying to develop a process that will actually reduce dependence on foreign oil and help in making a cleeaner environment?

Pat

 

[KICK]

who decided that Toyota makes a true hybrid?

Allison is making Ep drives for tranist buses and from what I've been led to believe a smaller version will be going in GM's lite truck offereings in the near future.

unlike Toyotas hybrids, which are a series drive, Allsions hybrid drive is series parallel, offereing the benefits of both a tranmission and a hybrid drive.

but you got to wait for it.

 

[patrick_g]

who decided that Toyota makes a true hybrid?

Allison is making Ep drives for tranist buses and from what I've been led to believe a smaller version will be going in GM's lite truck offereings in the near future.

unlike Toyotas hybrids, which are a series drive, Allsions hybrid drive is series parallel, offereing the benefits of both a tranmission and a hybrid drive.

but you got to wait for it.

Please define TRUE HYBRID. I can't find a definition from a reliable unbiased source.

If a vehicle is partially propelled mechanically by an ICE and partially by an electric motor then I would have thought the vehicle to be a hybrid. Whether the propulsors work at the same time, one at a time, or switch back and forth doesn't seem to be THE TEST of whether or not a vehicle is a hybrid.

Anyone/Everyone can pick a favorite method/process and argue the theoretical advantages or the practical differences of any particular company's manifestation of hybrid technology but so long as the vehicle gets partly propelled at least some of the time by ICE and electric motor then why is it NOT a hybrid.

Again, I guess I flounder for lack of a definition of (or need for) TRUE HYBRIDNESS. There are definite differences in different manufacturer's approaches to hybrids. Honda built hybrids. They work. They do OK. Toyota (with the Prius) built a clearly superior hybrid vehicle when compared to the Honda. Maybe someone will come along and do way better than the Prius. It won't be easy but it will be a marvel if it "out hybrids" the Prius by a good margin. I would love to have a vehicle that is way better than a Prius in cost/performance. The preceding statement is not intended in any way to put the Prius down. I have one and love it. BUT... I would always be happy to have something better in cost/performance ratio.

I think the Prius is currently the BEST mass produced hybrid on the market but better is always welcome. What matters to me in fuel economy and reduced pollution is the results not the means by which the results are achieved. If a pure ICE approach could produce a hundred HP and give 100 MPG with good freq of repair, reliability and low initial cost in a sedan that carries 4 full sized adults in air conditioined comfort quietly and smoothly then if the price is right I want one. I don't get off on having a hybrid badge on my car's back side but I do get off on all the comfort and convenience while getting over 50MPG.

Pat

 

[john_bud]

Ethanol has less engergy content per unit volume than gasoline, so you have to burn more of it to get the same motive engergy. That means less fuel economy.

It does come with it's own pet oxygen atom, so less is needed from the atmosphere - resulting in easier complete combustion. It also burns significantly cooler than gasoline - resulting in fewer NOx (oxides of nitrogen) so less smog potential. It does put off some other organic by products of combustion that aren't in the usual fumes, so it isn't perfect. But is is home grown and gives money to guys that drive tractors and work the earth.


jb

 

[patrick_g]

Ethanol has less engergy content per unit volume than gasoline, so you have to burn more of it to get the same motive engergy. That means less fuel economy.

It does come with it's own pet oxygen atom, so less is needed from the atmosphere - resulting in easier complete combustion. It also burns significantly cooler than gasoline - resulting in fewer NOx (oxides of nitrogen) so less smog potential. It does put off some other organic by products of combustion that aren't in the usual fumes, so it isn't perfect. But is is home grown and gives money to guys that drive tractors and work the earth.


jb

John, Yes it does give money to those who work the earth (are part of the corn to ethanol scam) but the money is ill spent and too much of it is mine.

If you consider the BIG picture does ethanol save oil? Little if any! Does it, in aggregate, reduce fuel costs for the public? NO. It is a sham. A feel good measure about as effective as using a bucket brigade armed with thimbles to bail the Titanic. Everyone works up a sweat, knows they are doing the RIGHT thing, feels good fighting the good fight, but doesn't produce a beneficial result for the majority because the boat still sinks.

Corn to ethanol is worse than no alternative fuel effort because it doesn't help and squanders the $ that could have been applied to finding something that will actually help. If the Iowa primary was to be permanently rescheduled to a sufficiently later date there would be no major corn to ethanol program impetus.

Pat

 

[mnbowhunter1960]

Here in Mn ethanol cost about 50 cents less per gallon than gas and many of the new vehicles sold up here are cabable of using it, Chevy was giving away a $1000.00 fuel card with vehicles to try ethanol in them and you do get fewer miles per gallon over gas. now the problem lies with so much corn going into ethanol production (and we have a lot of ethanol plants up here) that the price of milk has allmost doubled and so has the price of meat, so either way we cant come out ahead on this right now.

 

[patrick_g]

Here in Mn ethanol cost about 50 cents less per gallon than gas and many of the new vehicles sold up here are cabable of using it, Chevy was giving away a $1000.00 fuel card with vehicles to try ethanol in them and you do get fewer miles per gallon over gas. now the problem lies with so much corn going into ethanol production (and we have a lot of ethanol plants up here) that the price of milk has allmost doubled and so has the price of meat, so either way we cant come out ahead on this right now.

Right you are BowHunter! If you figure your or the typical family's bottom line impact from corn to ethanol you will see that you do not come out ahead. Corn to ethanol flunks the WIFM (Whats in it For Me?) test for just about everybody but participants in the scam; politicians, and those profiting from the Government redistribution of wealth like the refiners and corn farmers. If I had no integrity or morals and the Government offered to take your money and give it to me and my cohorts I'd do it and make claims about the beauty of getting money to the guy who works the soil. What a deal, what a windfall.

Unfortunately corn to ethanol doesn't save oil or reduce dependence on foreign oil and worse yet it diverts money that could be used on programs that could actually help with the oil crisis.

Pat

 

[KICK]

GMC (I think but it may have been under the Chevy lable) claims to have a hybrid but it is NOT LIKE ANY REAL HYBRID.



It does not use an electric motor to assist propulsion. It is not a TRUE hybrid in the Toyota Prius sense by any stretch of the imagination. It may be a neat thing for a contractor or farmer/rancher who would otherwise carry a generator around a lot (like I do) but it is not going to be greener than a standard model nor get better mileage.



Pat

Patty, You are the one who defined a true hybrid as a toyota prius in your #2 post and then questioned me as to the definition in post#11. see your quote above

then have the cajones to ask me to define it? too funny . you defined it first. LOL.

since the word HYBRID implies a mixture of something or a cross breed, just about anything mixed can be defined as a hybrid, including a toyota prius or a gm pickup with their take on it.

it may not live up to your well defined definition of what a hybrid is but thats the
way language works.

FYI



The "Mild" Hybrid - Yahoo! Autos

ABG First Impressions: Two-Mode hybrid Chevy Tahoe and GMC Yukon - AutoblogGreen

 

[patrick_g]

Patty, You are the one who defined a true hybrid as a toyota prius in your #2 post and then questioned me as to the definition in post#11. see your quote above

then have the cajones to ask me to define it? too funny . you defined it first. LOL.

since the word HYBRID implies a mixture of something or a cross breed, just about anything mixed can be defined as a hybrid, including a toyota prius or a gm pickup with their take on it.

it may not live up to your well defined definition of what a hybrid is but thats the
way language works.

FYI



The "Mild" Hybrid - Yahoo! Autos

ABG First Impressions: Two-Mode hybrid Chevy Tahoe and GMC Yukon - AutoblogGreen

Kick, Your use of the term TRUE HYBRID was a curiosity to me which is why I asked for a definition. I suggested one possible reasonable definition just as a trial balloon which you could use or modify or ignore but I was surprised you used it as a club to hit me over the head. This is just a conversation not a fight.

Here is another thought: All cars driven with their tail lights on are hybrids. The tail lights emit photons which have finite velocity and mass so have thrust making the car partially propelled by them. If you multiply the mass of the photons times their velocity you get the momentum (Momentum = Mass X Velocity) which helps propel the vehicle forward.

So if GMC can "reasonably" define their truck that is also a portable generator as a HYBRID then we can define all vehicles with tail lights as hybrids. Of course if our definition of hybrid is so fluid and non determinate as to fit all the marketeers claims (and my preposterous light drive hybrid claim) then we have chaos and can't discuss hybrids with any more surety than the three blind men discussed the elephant.

I asked you to define hybrid so I could try to use your definition but all l got for it was your attempt to ridicule me and debase the discussion to the level of a grade school playground. If you are so emotionally overwrought on the subject of hybrids as to be unable to have adult dialog, that's fine with me, I'm not learning any;thing new when your big intellectual input is to "play with" my name. I haven't had anyone call me Patty since aboiut 3rd or 4th grade and it didn't really bother me then. I'm sorry but if you want to get a "rise" out of me you'll have to try much much harder.

If we can just drop the BS and discuss things as fun loving adults, lets do so. If I have misunderstood your intentions in any way then I apologize, I don't always "get it" via this medium just as I am not always understood. I mean you no harm and usually enjoy reading your posts.

Pat