Box Scraper cheep box blade or expensive box blade

[Farmwithjunk]

Wish my Dad was still around.

Mine's been gone for a little over 7 years. I repeat those same words about 5 times a day. I miss having him around when I have a problem and I miss having him around when things are going especially good. I just miss him.

 

[john_bud]

Once you get dizzy turn the other way and do circles to unwind.

I have spent the majority of my 460 tractor hours with the boxblade on using it for grading large areas. Before that I spent hundreds of hours with a small bulldozer and 6-way blade. In many ways the dozer and boxscraper are similar in function.

My boxblade is in the lighter 400 or so lb range, made by Frontier, and 5 feet wide. It works without extra weight most of the time. I needed to grade off a big hard pan knob this year that the unweighted boxblade would only just scratch. So I got my subsoiler thinking it was just too tight and it would also just scratch. It made perfect sense to me that the blade was just scraping the surface and needed more weight. I had tried everything such as angle changes and scarifier position changes along with totally removing the scarifiers. I had some chunks of railroad steel adding up to about 150 lbs that I was going to put on but then I saw my barrels. I have a couple of 55 gallon plastic barrels that I used for water storage. Hmmmm, I strapped one barrel on top of the boxblade and then filled it with water. Yeah baby, 400 lbs of ballast on top of the 400 lb box. That box with scarifiers in the middle position took that hardpan and moved it like sand. The whole operation was quieter with less rattling from the box bouncing and the material was easily moved. My 3ph can lift some 1700 lbs so the weight was no issue.

I am now a firm believer in using additional weight on a blade for more effective cutting in hard material.

You must constantly look over your right shoulder with your right hand on the 3ph control when you are doing finish grading. I have a serious tan on one side of my neck from this. After a long day of grading I need to lean my head onto my left shoulder to try and even out.

Oh and to get a smooth surface you almost have to grade in more than one direction. Big learning curve and you get no useful benefit from going fast. You can creep along and grade just fine.

Highbeam,

Now be honest, before you added the 400# of extra weight - doubling the effective weight of the box - did you believe that there was that much difference between a heavy box and a light box?

I am asking because you have direct experience with light then heavy and maybe you can talk some sense into those that say a 300-400# box is just as effective as a 800-1000# box.

jb

 

[ALBALD1]

My $350 box blade folded up like an accordian the first time i used it. I have a century 2535. From what I've read on this topic, sounds like I should have gotten a heavier box blade. The plan is to straighten it out & weld crossbraces on it to strengthen it. I'm completely inexperienced, but the tractor never spun a tire or seemed to hit anything other hard clay dirt. Never slowed down a second, but I looked back & saw the scarifiers weren't in the dirt so I stopped.

 

[greg_g]

...maybe you can talk some sense into those that say a 300-400# box is just as effective as a 800-1000# box.

Maybe you should first consider what size tractor is going to USE this half ton boxblade. Rather than join the throng that's wandering down this side street, how about tailoring your response to the original question posed by WORKINALLTHETIME? I don't believe you can find argument to the fact that there's a certain limit to the weight of a boxblade that an 1852 pound tractor can effectively handle. He only wanted to know if - given the circumstances he described - that United boxblade would be ok

//greg//

 

[workinallthetime]

i guess i might also pipe in that this will be used mostly for leveling gravel and dirt. i have a BH and FEL with teeth for digging, both of i can do alot more faster than i ever could with a BB. There are times when it would be nice to do some final cleanup with a BB.
If my plans were to do massive digging projects and i didnt have the equipment i have now then the weight issue might really come into play. I really wanted to know if there was some sure fire reason i should drop 500-700 for a 5.5 foot BB instead of a 350 low end model. what i have gathered here from this post is that there is not a good reason to buy a high end model for my desired use. true weight is an issue with the cheeper units but i have about 5 pieces of 3/8 to 1/2 inch plate that goose neck balls were welded to and that could make some real nice weight should i need it.
thanks guys for the info and sorry if some of ya got bent out of shape (no pun intended) im off to mexico for a week then back to the grind

 

[john_bud]

[

Maybe you should first consider what size tractor is going to USE this half ton boxblade. Rather than join the throng that's wandering down this side street, how about tailoring your response to the original question posed by WORKINALLTHETIME? I don't believe you can find argument to the fact that there's a certain limit to the weight of a boxblade that an 1852 pound tractor can effectively handle. He only wanted to know if - given the circumstances he described - that United boxblade would be ok

//greg//

Nowhere in this thread, nor in any other thread on this forum will you find a post of mine directed at you (excepting this one). Yet, you have posted a strongly worded reply directed at me that impunes me, my experience, opinion and advice. Were you posting correct, it would not be an issue, however it is not correct.


Read Post #14 - I recommend that the original poster buy a 5.5' 700# box blade. Did you not see that? His 4x4 30 hp tractor has an FEL that weighs about 1000-1200# with the bucket - he lives in OK where it is not exactly mountainous. He will be able to drag a 700# box around. His 3pt lift is 1650# at 24" behind the arms, more that enough for 700#. My assumption is that the ground in OK is hard, often dry, possibly with a layer of caliche, possibly clay. Not easy to work. A light box will not work very well in the conditions prevalent in the area the original poster lives in. All of that data was used to form my opinion as seen in post #14.

Read Post #38 - Highbeam added 400# to a light box - he notes that it performs dramatically better. He also notes that he is now a firm believer in additional weight on a blade for more effective cutting in hard materials.

Read post #42 - I don't direct the original poster to buy a half ton box. I do ask Highbeam to add more detail to explain that heavy is better than light for ground engaging equipment. I have seen that many people make claims that they do quite well with light box blades. My assumption is that like Highbeam, they don't have experience with an equivalent width heavier box.

The original poster, Workallthetime, actually does mostly commercial work with his equipment. My experience guides me to stand by the advice that he will be better served with a box in the 5.5' and 700# range. I also still stand by him investigating a rollover box for his commercial work.


Have a Great Day!

jb

 

[greg_g]

Nowhere in this thread, nor in any other thread on this forum will you find a post of mine directed at you (excepting this one). Yet, you have posted a strongly worded reply directed at me that impunes me, my experience, opinion and advice. Were you posting correct, it would not be an issue, however it is not correct.

I've not impugned anyone, least of all you John. I was merely trying to get this thread steered back to the ORIGINAL question. Yet you still can't get off that heavy vs light side discussion, a concern that wasn't even addressed by the OP.

My position on this topic is no more complicated than originally offered. That is, the United boxblade he's looking at should be perfectly suitable for an 1852 pound two wheel drive B3030 on R4 tires. Yet here you are still trying to talk him into shopping for a ground-engaging implement that's approaching 40% of his tractor weight. If WORKALLTHETIME wants to add weight later to the United model, isn't that better than arbitrarily buying one that the tractor may not even be able to handle?

Near the top in the common sense rules of tractor ownership; make your implement selections based upon your tractor's size and capability. But it's academic now, as I see WORKALLTHETIME has already arrived at that conclusion by himself.

//greg//

 

[patrick_g]

Greg, Let me try to add something (besides gasoline to try to pout out the fire.) Buying a light weight box blade and adding weight is not the same as buying a heavier built box blade.

Adding weight to a light box will make it work harder but you need to be careful that it doesn't get damaged by trying to work too hard. A heavy built box is stronger and built to take the higher loads.

That said, there is probably a happy medium where the box is heavy enough to do some real work and strong enough to take some weight and do more heavy duty work but you have to be careful. Cautionary tale follows: I bought a Cammond box blade. They are a top of the line MFG. The unit worked good but within a few weeks the hydraulic raised and lowered scarifier carrier beam bent quite a bit. I got it repaired under warranty (pays to buy from a top of the line outfit) They repaired it and beefed it up. Within a week I had bent it worse than before. They gave me credit for the full purchase price less $50 to trade up to an INDUSTRIAL grade box blade. I have abused it and operated it like a maniac. I have been brought to an instant halt by running into a stump or rock several times (I hate hitting my head in the cab and thought about wearing a helmet) but I have never been able to damage the thing in any way except scrubbing some rubber off a hydraulic hoseI let rub a tire.

Do I need this heavy of an implement? No. Could I get by with less? Yes. Am I satisfied and happy? Yes. Would I be happier with a lighter wieght unit? NO. This thing works good and apparently can't be damaged by a 40HP Kubota.

I am in Oklahoma (South Central) and when the ground is dry and hard I use the TNT to engage the scarifiers with no other contact and even with this HD unit I can hardly scratch the surface. I will have to try added weight next time but there are limits to what my 3PH can do.

Any box will handle loose gravel (like just delivered) and soft soil and adding weight will make it try to cut more aggressively in harder soil but you are out of the design envelope and need to be aware that you can over stress the unit and damage it.

My box also has a rear facing second blade which in concert with the high back wall of the box lets me back up and play mini dozer. A light duty box would likely get bent if you tried this with much gusto. Often when I don't have enough power and traction I substitute velocity and momentum. No problem with my HD box.

If any given tractor will dig more undisturbed or hard dirt dirt faster with the FEL than the box blade then either the conditions are really weird, the operator doesn't know how to use a box blade, or the box blade is NOT a good one. The FEL should only be faster than a good box with an experienced operator under certain conditions such as working from a loose pile.

Oh, and Greg were you in the east coast or the west coast Navy? I worked with the west coast Navy in San Diego and after a few initial cross threadings they accepted this USAF vet. Don't know if you got near Navy SATCOM but for a while I was THE SSIXS guy for the shoreside installations worldwide.

Pat

 

[greg_g]

Oh, and Greg were you in the east coast or the west coast Navy? I worked with the west coast Navy in San Diego and after a few initial cross threadings they accepted this USAF vet. Don't know if you got near Navy SATCOM but for a while I was THE SSIXS guy for the shoreside installations worldwide.

I'm thinkin' you heavy versus light guys should simply start your own topic - one of which I'll stay outa

I was career Navy, I was satcom, I was worldwide; Reasoner/Puget Sound/Coronado/Belknap/6thFlt Staff/Guam/Philippines/Germany/Italy/Scotland

//greg//

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I'm thinkin' you heavy versus light guys should simply start your own topic - one of which I'll stay outa

//greg//

OR, maybe one person needs to realize that this is a free forum, open to the membership for discussion of anything pertaining the subject, no matter which direction it goes, even when it seems to upset one person when the consensus is quite the opposite of his opinion. Maybe we should just agree that there's a difference of opinion, with quite a bit more evidence in favor of one view than there is in favor of the contrary point of view. Maybe we should realize that we're not always right in our assumtions, while everyone else is wrong in their experiences.

OR we can all stand here and hold our breath until we turn blue if everyone doesn't agree with what we have to say.