rickmacheske
Gold Member
I have the united box blade. It works fine for me. It's not all that light and so far I haven't broke it.
Box Scraper cheep box blade or expensive box blade
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greg_g
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Adding weight in your case may cure the symptoms, but does not address the cause. You can usually fix the issue of "sliding over the ground" by changing the angle of attack. If you can't pull the toplink up short enough to put a more aggressive angle on the blade with the scarifiers down, simply buy a shorter toplink.flusher said:
//greg//
patrick_g
Elite Member
I bought a Cammond box blade. Cammond is a good brand. It had hydrraulic scarifier raise and lower. In a few weeks I had bent the tube supporting the scarifiers and They fixed it under warranty. Then I bent it agin worse. They gave me all but $50 of the original price to upgrade to an industrial strength box blade they make. It is a 6 footer that weighs about 1000 pounds. I haven't found a way to bend it. I don't have to add weight to get it to cut but I do nhave TNT and the top cylinder will push back on it and make the blade dig in. Alternatively I can lower the 3PH arms and pull up on the top to dig the scarifiers in with little contact of the rest of it with the dirt.
They make smaller ones also. This thing looks like it will last forever unless I hook it to a monster tractor, something many times the HP of my 40 HP Kubota.
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They have a NEW grading scraper somewhere between a box blade and a grader.
Pat
They make smaller ones also. This thing looks like it will last forever unless I hook it to a monster tractor, something many times the HP of my 40 HP Kubota.
Home Page
They have a NEW grading scraper somewhere between a box blade and a grader.
Pat
patrick_g said:
Pat, what does that 1000# hummer go for? (If you don't mind my asking!)
By the way, my gannon landscaper is 5.5 ft and 920 pounds. Non-hydraulic (lever used to flip down the scarifier bar) high back box. It will contain 1 yard of material in the box.
Workallthetime, don't waste your money or your time on jobs with a toy. Buy a real box blade, the productivity increase is great. Your machine can probably handle a box in the 5.5 foot range and 700#. For you, a roll over box blade would be the ticket. Check them out. But don't expect to get one cheap!
jb
johnk
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I have a King Kutter Medium duty hinged back 6 footer and it made a big difference fron the LD KK I had prior. The weight does make a big difference and the hinged back with the top link extended does a great job of smoothing. Granted angle of attack makes a difference but add some weight to that angle and you have a great performer.
I have a 6' United box blade. it seems to work well for me. It will dig in my packed driveway just fine if I adjust it correctly, scarifiers up. It has no problem filling up with dirt, spilling over the back. Good tool. I've only used the scarifiers down filling ruts in the field, no problem there either.
Good luck with whatever brand you buy.
Good luck with whatever brand you buy.
Farmwithjunk
Super Member
I'm constantly amazed at the amount of good advice that's intertwined with bad advice that appears here from time to time. Most bad advice comes from giving "absolutes" based on limited experience or experience in a limited arena.
There is a balance needed to make a box blade work correctly in all conditions. Not everyone is using them in clean topsoil, gravel drives, or ideal conditions. To address their use based on those "ideal conditions" leaves a lot to be desired.
In SOME cases, the scarifiers will pull a light box into the ground. In SOME conditions they won't. In many instances, you can't always use the scarifiers at a depth that'll accomplish this in the first place. In SOME conditions you don't want to use them at all.
Extremely hard ground, ground with established sod, even hard packed gravel roads sometimes offer enough resistance to the blades cutting edge that the scarifiers won't have enough "suck" to pull the blade into the surface. At that point, you're at the mercy of the box's weight to do all the cutting. BTDT.
In SOME cases, such as maintaining a road, you don't usually want to loosen the base with deep running scarifiers in the first place. You might simply need to scrape the irregularities on the surface without "un-packing the road bed. The use of scarifiers on the well compacted roadbed may well be the reason why a road needs constant upkeep in the first place. Leave as much undisturbed as possible and the road becomes firm enough in time that little grading may be needed. In that case, you're at the mercy of the box's weight to do all the needed cutting. BTDT
Working around trees (and their roots) presents another issue. You may not want to damage your tree, meaning that scarifiers can't be used at any significant depth. We're back to needing enough WEIGHT again.
Shotening the top link will in effect, lower the scarifiers. It DECREASES the aggressiveness of the cutting blade though. (positions it in a more straight "up and down" angle) LENGTHENING the top link in effect, shortens the scarifiers, but positions the cutting edge of the blade at a more aggressive angle. When refering to the REAR cutting edge, reverse the thinking on top link adjustment. LONGER is less aggressive. SHORTER is more aggressive. Hydraulic top links are the best answer here. BTDT.
It takes proper adjustment, combined with enough weight to do ALL jobs in ALL conditions. PatrickG's 1000# box blade along with the proper adjustments for conditions at hand PROBABLY works better in ALL conditions than any one mentioned so far in this thread.
To say weight isn't important is simply not correct. In SOME cases, it isn't as important as others. But speaking in broad general terms, weight is every bit as important as any other single feature of a box blade.
I work for a large general contractor. We have several Case industrial tractors equipped with Gannon box blades, hydraulic scarifiers, hydraulic top links, and hydraulic down-pressure on the 3-point hitches. EVERY single available feature that SHOULD make them work to perfection. Yet in some cases, it's just not enough. All of these box blades have had weigh brackets added to allow us to install suitcase weights to increase their digging ability.
Now granted, a typical subcompact or compact tractor might not even be capable of using the increased abilities of a heavily weighted box. Horsepower amd traction may be limited to the point where you don't ever approach the point where you need more "dig", but when you do, there's no substitute for weight, just as there's no substitute for proper use and adjustment.
There is a balance needed to make a box blade work correctly in all conditions. Not everyone is using them in clean topsoil, gravel drives, or ideal conditions. To address their use based on those "ideal conditions" leaves a lot to be desired.
In SOME cases, the scarifiers will pull a light box into the ground. In SOME conditions they won't. In many instances, you can't always use the scarifiers at a depth that'll accomplish this in the first place. In SOME conditions you don't want to use them at all.
Extremely hard ground, ground with established sod, even hard packed gravel roads sometimes offer enough resistance to the blades cutting edge that the scarifiers won't have enough "suck" to pull the blade into the surface. At that point, you're at the mercy of the box's weight to do all the cutting. BTDT.
In SOME cases, such as maintaining a road, you don't usually want to loosen the base with deep running scarifiers in the first place. You might simply need to scrape the irregularities on the surface without "un-packing the road bed. The use of scarifiers on the well compacted roadbed may well be the reason why a road needs constant upkeep in the first place. Leave as much undisturbed as possible and the road becomes firm enough in time that little grading may be needed. In that case, you're at the mercy of the box's weight to do all the needed cutting. BTDT
Working around trees (and their roots) presents another issue. You may not want to damage your tree, meaning that scarifiers can't be used at any significant depth. We're back to needing enough WEIGHT again.
Shotening the top link will in effect, lower the scarifiers. It DECREASES the aggressiveness of the cutting blade though. (positions it in a more straight "up and down" angle) LENGTHENING the top link in effect, shortens the scarifiers, but positions the cutting edge of the blade at a more aggressive angle. When refering to the REAR cutting edge, reverse the thinking on top link adjustment. LONGER is less aggressive. SHORTER is more aggressive. Hydraulic top links are the best answer here. BTDT.
It takes proper adjustment, combined with enough weight to do ALL jobs in ALL conditions. PatrickG's 1000# box blade along with the proper adjustments for conditions at hand PROBABLY works better in ALL conditions than any one mentioned so far in this thread.
To say weight isn't important is simply not correct. In SOME cases, it isn't as important as others. But speaking in broad general terms, weight is every bit as important as any other single feature of a box blade.
I work for a large general contractor. We have several Case industrial tractors equipped with Gannon box blades, hydraulic scarifiers, hydraulic top links, and hydraulic down-pressure on the 3-point hitches. EVERY single available feature that SHOULD make them work to perfection. Yet in some cases, it's just not enough. All of these box blades have had weigh brackets added to allow us to install suitcase weights to increase their digging ability.
Now granted, a typical subcompact or compact tractor might not even be capable of using the increased abilities of a heavily weighted box. Horsepower amd traction may be limited to the point where you don't ever approach the point where you need more "dig", but when you do, there's no substitute for weight, just as there's no substitute for proper use and adjustment.
Last edited:
jacobweaver32
Bronze Member
I dont want to steal the thread but I don't want to create another cause there is so much good information here....
Ok, here is the issue I am having grading with a 5' woods BB in hard ground....
I have been doing (attempting) some field grading myself and have not been very successful. It seems that my top link is too long because I cannot get my boxblade any more "aggressive" then maybe 10 degrees from horizontal. I think because of this I have had to go over the graded area about 5 times to get it all loosened up.... but this is all done now (but I know better in the future).
The problem I am having now is that I can't level out the waves in the graded area.... all holes and bumps are gone but the broken up dirt is now wavy as ****.
It seems that when I go up towards a high part of a wave the angle of the tractor puts the blade in the ground further which removes material from the bottom part of the wave I just drove out of.... THEN when I crest the top of the wave the blade pulls out of the ground (because the tractor is level) and dumps a majority of the dirt near the top of the wave.....SO as I proceed down this wave the blade is in the air so it does not grab any material off the high part (where I really want to pull material)...... I think you get the drift....
Can you visualize this?? or do I need pictures? I really dont know what to do.... I have even tried lifting it and dropping it accordingly to try and only grab material at certain points... but the arms lift too slow and the rippers dig in too slow for this to be effective.
help
Ok, here is the issue I am having grading with a 5' woods BB in hard ground....
I have been doing (attempting) some field grading myself and have not been very successful. It seems that my top link is too long because I cannot get my boxblade any more "aggressive" then maybe 10 degrees from horizontal. I think because of this I have had to go over the graded area about 5 times to get it all loosened up.... but this is all done now (but I know better in the future).
The problem I am having now is that I can't level out the waves in the graded area.... all holes and bumps are gone but the broken up dirt is now wavy as ****.
It seems that when I go up towards a high part of a wave the angle of the tractor puts the blade in the ground further which removes material from the bottom part of the wave I just drove out of.... THEN when I crest the top of the wave the blade pulls out of the ground (because the tractor is level) and dumps a majority of the dirt near the top of the wave.....SO as I proceed down this wave the blade is in the air so it does not grab any material off the high part (where I really want to pull material)...... I think you get the drift....
Can you visualize this?? or do I need pictures? I really dont know what to do.... I have even tried lifting it and dropping it accordingly to try and only grab material at certain points... but the arms lift too slow and the rippers dig in too slow for this to be effective.
help
greg_g
Super Member
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Yeah Jacob, been there - done that. It's easy to visualize. Again, you've got a comparatively lightweight CUT with no draft control. And there's a very good chance that the toplink the MF provided with the tractor is too long. Not that it's related to your problem, but I found that I had to use a shorter toplink on my TS354C to get the right angle on my bale spike as well as on the flexible toplink bracket attached to my rotary cutter.
Without a properly set and functioning draft control, you have two options; check chains - or spending more time looking backwards than you do forwards. Because without check chains or draft control, your remaining option is position control. That means driving forward, and looking backward
That said, some of the aggravation can be taken outa the equation by replacing the manual toplink with a hydraulic. But I don't know if you've got the remotes required to hook one up. And it still requires a lot of looking backward
//greg//
Without a properly set and functioning draft control, you have two options; check chains - or spending more time looking backwards than you do forwards. Because without check chains or draft control, your remaining option is position control. That means driving forward, and looking backward
That said, some of the aggravation can be taken outa the equation by replacing the manual toplink with a hydraulic. But I don't know if you've got the remotes required to hook one up. And it still requires a lot of looking backward
//greg//
MJPetersen
Veteran Member
jacobweaver32 said:
When I read your post i had to smile, not at you, but at a memory that came flooding back. When I was starting out in construction I was given an old D-8 straight blade and bob tailed. It had terrible balance, but that only contributed to my problem and was not the cause of it. I made so many "whoop-de-doos" that you would break your neck if you backed over them fast.
The experienced hands could make a pass and it looked like glass, but mine were more like ocean waves without the whitecaps!! I figured out how to smooth it out a bit by back dragging the blade (especially at an angle) and eventually learned how to make a smoother pass, but never like the very experienced. If you get a short enough top link and raise the scarifiers you can accomplish the same thing I did in back blading. It helps if you can do it at an angle or even 90 degrees to your "waves."
Mike in Warsaw
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