Cheap metal...fact or fantasy?

dieselsmoke1 · Dec 3, 2003

Some folks are of the opinion that if a tractor weighs more than most others, it MUST be made of "cheap metal".

Others might feel that if a tractor costs less that some others, it's GOT to be inferior.

I own an "inferior tractor" made of "cheap metal" by some folk's standards, and I'm doggone happy with it.

My 2810HST weighs more than most similarly powered tractors. I don't have any ballast in my tires. I have no plans to add any because I don't NEED any. I can fill my 12 cf loader with dirt and drive down a 15 degree incline in 2wd with no counterweight (fact, not fantasy) and feel absolutely stable (I tried it just so I'd know what would happen if I screwed up and did it). I don't advise other owners to do this, but I am confident in my equipment in this situation.

Back in the 70's, one of IH's claims to fame were that they were the heaviest made HP to HP. I don't remember anyone insinuating they were made of "cheap metal" back then. I prefer to think of it as " add metal till you cannot break it" engineering.

I've posted several pics which show fit and finish, and will post several more if anyone requests.

Is a Mahindra a John Deere? No. Does it have the resale of a John Deere? No. Does it cost as much as a John Deere? No. Is it inferior to a John Deere? In my opinion it's not, but that's just my opinion and we're all entitled to them.

DavesTractor · Dec 4, 2003

I'll throw in my $0.02 worth.

I think people with the "cheap metal" theories are basing that opinion on some of the poorer examples of tractors, especially ones built a few years ago (no names here on purpose), and some poor ones still built today. These tractors were and are big, heavy, ungainly models built in countries other than the US and Japan. Castings were huge and rough, mostly because they couldn't make them smaller and strong. Leaks were abundant, electrical problems were rampant, etc. These tractors had little to offer except being heavier and simple in design. So the dealers advertised that they had a heavy tractor and made a big deal of it, when really they had little to offer but sheer mass.

I think the current line-up of non-big 3 tractors is quite nice. Check out the DK Kioti, or the Branson, TYM, Mahindra or Century. They aren’t made heavy due to lack of engineering or production ability. They are made heavy to do the sort of work for which they are designed. This is in contrast to the models indicated but without names in the first paragraph. They were built heavy by default.

John Deere and Kubota have built high quality lightweight units that have sold well. It is a credit to their engineers that they will hold together so well when built light. It is smart marketing to offer higher horsepower engines in these little guys, despite the fact that most of that is wasted (except when mowing) because of inadequate traction due to insufficient weight. Even so, I give them credit for these little machines; they will get a lot of work done, even with limited lift capacity and traction.

I was surprised recently though, when I looked under a JD2210 and it looked like the rear axle assembly is aluminum, has fins for cooling and a vulnerable little plastic fan underneath to also help keep the rear end cool. We hesitate to criticize JD, but that sounds like good lawnmower technology, but a little light duty for a tractor. And the floorboards and many other parts are plastic. I like most JD models, and their parts and service network is fabulous, but they have their shortcomings as well. I know, the little 2210 isn't designed to do the same things as the larger units, so don't beat me up on that...I am just trying to make a point that a company can lean a little too far to the lightweight side of things as well.

Now my disclaimer, like all of us, I am biased. I am a dealer and sell Branson and the smaller Mahindra line, plus used tractors of all makes. I try to keep an open mind, but I can’t help but to see and extol the virtues of the tractors I sell.

dieselsmoke1 · Dec 4, 2003

Well said, Dave.

lamarbur · Dec 4, 2003

I have a Mahindra 4110 model and for the most part am quite happy with it. Fit and finish is as good as any big 3 colors (even though 5030 saw different) Machine does all that I've asked from it and more. Even had a couple of other TBN'rs namely Junkman and AndyMA try out my 11 ft backhoe. I think they can attest to the machines strengths and abilities. To change anything, it would be the loader. Unfortunately, American made by KMW. THe loader is weak, of old design, and can come light years ahead if they really wanted to. A flip over seat to operate tractor/backhoe would be second and the availability to put on a cab. I wonder a lot when these companies say it can't be done or they're not interested as the 4110 is a TYM with Kioti engine. TYM has an awesome full cab, evidently not available on Mahindra or other rebadged TYM models. Anyone is welcome to my house to try this over weighted piece of blob and see for yourself how it can compete with the big 3.

Woodbeef · Dec 4, 2003

Ahhhh........I take it the Deeroids are running scared once again!! Sounds like typical coffeeshop bs....plain and simple. I bet most of those guys never even seen a Mahindra let alone drove one. Their info comes from their next door neighbor's,brother's second cousin on his wife's side,who heard it at the Piggly Wiggly waiting in line on a Saturday morning with a hangover!!

In the real world Deere makes some good tractors,as do the other brands. Be glad we have so many choices!! No brand fits everyone,like it or not. Remember to thaqt anything designed and made by man can also be broken by him too........no matter who's name is on the side or what color it is!!

shvl73 · Dec 4, 2003

As a recent purchaser of a 2810HST and after only 16+ hours, so far all I can say is WOW! I love it!
I looked at Massy 1428V, NH TC-30, JD 790, Kubota B7800, all fairly local dealers & Mahindra got my $.
I purchased a Woods 60" rotary cutter, 64" Blizzard snowblower, 60" First Choice rototillier, & was given an old posthole digger. I have used all but the snowblower but will be mounting that this weekend. The 3pth was stronger than all others, the FEL was stronger than all others & ergonomically I liked the layout better than most. They all had their strong points, but I am very satisfied & would (and have) reccomend Jim Bailey at Northeastern Forklift in Epsom, NH to others.

dieselsmoke1 · Dec 4, 2003

( I looked at Massy 1428V, NH TC-30, JD 790, Kubota B7800, all fairly local dealers & Mahindra got my $.
)

I did the same thing and reached the same conclusion. They are all good choices but unfortunatly I can have only one!

Congratulations on your purchase and welcome to TBN!

CMunger · Dec 4, 2003

All iron ore comes from the ground, like a mud pie that a child would make, different people take the same metal and shape it differently, but it is all the same. The difference is the technology that is used to mold or cast it, old style sand casting, later style forge casting etc. John Deere would like you to believe the paint does make it stonger, their proagada machine is good and consistant, and has been for years. Some feel this is warm and comfy why to buy, and without taking chances pay more for so so called piece of mind. This is true but not in all cases. The problem that manufactures have is that an old model tractor would cost as to produce as a current model that would weigh the same . The addtional cost is R&D to come up with new models to excite the buyer (BIGGER BETTER Stonger FASTER) The simple truth is the cost of material is small between models
Chuck M.

dieselsmoke1 · Dec 5, 2003

( Anyone is welcome to my house to try this over weighted piece of blob and see for yourself how it can compete with the big 3. )

That's a good idea, lamarbur. I know of no better time and place to challenge these "myths" than here and now. I'll also extend an open invitatation to any TBN'er that would like a little seat time on some "cheap metal".

lamarbur · Dec 5, 2003

I'd like to see AndyMa possibly say something. He ran my hoe last week for near an hour. Now, he has the same size hoe on his new TN75 whcih we worked on then hauled to another location today. I believe he'd tell anyone, the Mahindra 41 HP with this particular hoe setup is one awesome powerful machine. I think he would also agree that the KMW loader can use some major updating. All in all, this mahindra operates great.

jwcinpk · Dec 5, 2003

I too extend an invitation to those who want some seat time on my cheap metal. Especially you agricultural guys who are diehard deere guys. You might actually help me get some work done around here. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bobvt · Dec 5, 2003

Well folks, let's just admit it - the Mahindras are cheap metal and for that I'm thankful. On a per pound basis, it was the cheapest I could find (and I wanted a heavy machine to boot). While it is a bit early for me to rave about them, I bought one thinking not only was it a deal but believing that in many respects it was Better than the competition. I research things to death; Mahindra came out on top (and I have been around tractors all my life from 18 hp IH Super A to 325 hp Steigers).

Bob

Bob

JASTN70D · Dec 5, 2003

Bob That much experience around tractors brings a lot to the discussion. The fact is times are changing and so is the competition. That's good for all TBNers no matter what there color preference is. And as for Cheap metal weighing more it just don't sound right to me

John

Bobvt · Dec 5, 2003

John,

You may have misinterpreted my comments. All I'm saying is that on a dollar per pound basis my Mahindra was the cheapest - cheap metal, as opposed to some other tractors I looked at that had a much higher cost per pound - expensive metal. Everything else being equal, if you want a heavy tractor, cost per pound is very important.

Bob

JASTN70D · Dec 5, 2003

Bob No no I got it. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Actually I was referring to previous posts that had eluded to what they believed the reason being for the heavier weight of the Mahindra.
As a matter of fact I looked at them very closely and if I would have had more confidence in the dealer would have bought one. Instead I went with a Kioti DK55.(they are a very close match) . Sorry for the confusion /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Bobvt · Dec 5, 2003

John,

Well you are smarter than me. I had no confidence in the Mahindra dealer and he hasn't disapointed me!!! I bought it anyway. Thankfully, the Kubota dealer (good reputation) 45 miles away has taken on Mahindra. The DK65 was tied for my second choice. I think the DK65 is 50 to 60 pounds heavier than my 6500.

Bob

JASTN70D · Dec 5, 2003

I guess I should have clarified I was looking @ the 6000

Bobvt · Dec 5, 2003

John,

I assumed you were probably looking at the 6000 - comparable to the DK55.

Bob

JASTN70D · Dec 5, 2003

Yea.! Glad to here your way around the problem with the dealer. Nothing worse than a bad dealer. Some I think are out of touch with the new type of consumer. Or maybe the new product line has them somewhat confused

Bobvt · Dec 5, 2003

John,

I'm disappointed I didn't get anymore responses to my intial post. You see I'm suppose to be Xmas shopping (internet) and I'm finding it almost as unpleasant as going to the mall.

You have a good weekend. Nice chatting with you.

Bob