Chain saw blade sharpening ?

[Richard]

Have a Stihl 044 saw with 20" bar. When I bought the saw (going out of business sale for ~ $400 /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif ) I bought extra bar and some extra chains.

A new chain on this saw will absolutely make mincemeat out of a piece of wood. I file them sometimes to try to keep/replace the edge. After more use/abuse, I'll take them to shop to be "professionally" sharpened.

Last night while cutting tree down, saw got pinched. No problem, got other bar and "professionally" sharpened chain and the #*^%&%$@# thing cut worse than a butterknife on steel. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

I've had this rotten experience with TWO shops. (MORE /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif) Is there any secret to taking a blade out and genuinely having it "sharpened" like new? Maybe a semblence of new? Maybe at least like a steak knife? (I'll even forego the "Ginsu" edge) /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Who sharpens their blades how and where to get GREAT results?

Any recommendations? Should I just pay what ever the $$ are and buy my own sharpener/grinder?? (I'm just that retentive to do that sort of thing...if so, where would you get one?)

Signed,

Dull in Tennessee

 

[Bird]

Richard, I can sympathize with you, but don't really have a solution. About 3 years ago, I had a couple of chain saw chains sharpened by a local dealer, and they were worse than when I took them in. Then I found a little independent shop in the sharpening business and that guy showed me what the first shop did wrong (there are different kinds of chains, sizes, angles, and I don't know what all). Anyway I was glad to find someone really competent, and now he's retired and the shop's closed. You can buy your own equipment, but I suspect you may not be happy with that either unless you get some good instruction in doing the job.

Bird

 

[Richard]

Bird
Thanks for input. I know what you mean regarding various angles/sizes and such. I can't imagine myself (nor anyone) duplicating the poor blade I now have.

Personally speaking, I'm a reader type. I don't really know how long the old board was around, but I've been reading about tractors for maybe 4 years now and until the recent advent of the L-48 STILL wasn't sure what "tractor" I would probably buy. Of course, with the aquisition of Brutus buying a tractor is currently not an issue. Point is, that I have NO qualms on purchasing the equipment and don't care if it takes me 2 years to master or 12 ruined blades to master. After a while, it becomes a matter of principle to me rather than the cost. In the end, I WILL have my blades sharp. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[bpence]

Richard, some years ago I started buying firewood logs by the semi flatbed load and cutting/splitting to feed a wood furnace. Keeping chain saws sharp was a definite challenge.

I invested in my own hand held, electric powered rotary sharpener (looks kind of like a Dremel tool). 15+ years ago it came from Sears and I don't remember how much it cost, but it wasn't a lot. It uses small rotary grinding pegs to sharpen the chain teeth. Different size grinding pegs are available for the different size teeth out there. I went through quite a few grinding pegs while learning, actually never messed up a chain too much, and very quickly became pretty good at sharpening those little teeth.

I use a regular vise to clamp the bottom teeth (the ones that look like a dog's tooth) on the chain when I sharpen. Then I use the rotary grinder and do the teeth on one side of the chain, moving the chain every two or three teeth. It's very easy to hold the correct angle and get the front & top edge sharp. Trust me on this one, it's not rocket science. Then I flip the chain around and do the other side. The chain from my 20" Poulan takes 10 minutes off the saw to do a good sharpen.

I say go for it. The little power sharpeners aren't that expensive, are easy to use, and you'll have a sharp chain when you want it. I always have a sharp chain on the saw and another standing by. Life can be good.

Bob Pence

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Richard, with practice you can do your own. I handfile all my own sawchains with fine results. Over time I've experienced the same problems with some shops. In fact at one place 6 of my chains were esentially rendered useless by some young kid "runnin' the show" while his boss was out on the snowmobile race circuit. There are 2 angles to maintain on the cutter teeth. The raker teeth (depth gauge) height is important also. Too high and the chain won't cut good and too low it will grab too much. Keep the saw from moving while you file. All I use for equipment is a round file, flat file, raker gauge and a small portable chain vice. Wear gloves to protect your hands from cuts. Check out http://www.baileys-online.com. They have everything you need including electric chain grinders & chain loops They're in TN too!

 

[RobS]

Sorry for interjecting, but all this chain saw stuff reminds me of a little chain saw humor I remember from a while back: Seems this guy from Arkansas was having trouble with his brand new chain saw. He returned to the dealer and explained that he was cutting more wood by hand than he was with the chain saw. The dealer looked it over and fired it up. Everything seemed to be in order. When he shut it off the owner asked "What the hell was all that noise?".

Wait, there's more...

A couple of weeks later the guy returns to the dealer. Said the saw had been running and cutting well. He stopped to replace the chain one day and ever since it just wouldn't cut. He even fired it up and demonstrated the poor performance to the dealer. Dealer looked at the saw and said "You put the new chain on backwards". Guy says "No I didn't and I'll prove it". He steps onto the other side of the log and tries cutting again... "See, no better".

My apologies to the intelligent people of Arkansas...

Rob

 

[Jag]

Way to go Richard...

 

[Bird]

Richard, it seems to me that it ought to be fairly simple, but I've known two people who bought the electric grinder like Bob Pence, tried it a couple of times, gave up, and went back to having someone else do their sharpening. I suspect it's like a lot of jobs; simple if you know how. And I don't think it should take too long to learn.

Bird

 

[jimmoore]

duh, thas orite Rob!! Don't have chainsaw, but keeps wife axe sharp as a razor!!
Gore sends Bush telegram:
When the votes are all counted
and the election is past
I'll hug your elephant if you will kiss my a$$.

 

[ejb]

Richard, the only good solution that I have found is to use the blades until they are dull and then buy new ones...only halfway kidding. I try to sharpen my own blades all the time, and have rarely been satisfied with the result...tried bringing to the local shop as well, and they barely did any better (and seemed to file about 50% of the life out of the blades in one shapening!)...a finally bit the bullet, and bought two new blades (second one was 50% off), so it only came to about $10 per chain.

When I got home and put on that new chain I COULD NOT BELIEVE the difference it made...all those years of thinking my saw was inferior and it was solved for $10.

You have to seriously consider the cost of sharpening yourself (time) versus the cost of dropping it off, picking it up etc. For me it is 20 minutes either way (not too far), and $3/blade for a terrible job.

For $7 more, the saw acts like a hot knife thru butter (thats the real savings for me, cuts down the amount of time I actually need to spend chainsawing, which is not one of my favorite chores).

At most I would need maybe 2 or 3 chains per year...

If you find the perfect solution, lets us all know.

 

[Von]

Richard,
Here is something to consider, Just replace the old chain with new. You can buy chain in bulk rolls and master links. Just put a new chain on when you need it. I've been doing it this way for years, of course I got a life time supply of chain and links from my Grandfather. It was left over from the Basket factory my family owned. I don't use my saw all that much so its nice to have a fresh chain when I need it. Its just one more idea.

Von

 

[Richard]

Well, I've been snooping around this wonderful thing called the internet and found some sharpeners from several $$ to over 500 /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

When I bought saw, I ended up buying a total of 4 more chains. So, when sharp, I actually have 5 chains. I rotate them when one is out to be "professionally" sharpened, I didn't want to ever be without one.

The bulk chain idea is certainly one I had never thought of and will look into. I've also found out that there is a wider variety of chains than I had thought. I knew of the low kickback and by inference, "high" kickback chains. Turns out there is round chisel, square chisel, semi chisel, yada yada yada...

Maybe I should send my request to the Ginsu company? After all, if their knife can cut steel and gingerly slice the skin off a tomato, maybe they could make a chain that stayed sharp??

 

[gordon]

Alot of different things to take into consideration here. First what kind of chain will you be running? Chipper or chisel teeth. Next what type of chain skip, semi skip, and the most important of all is round or square ground!!! The most popular is usually a full skip chain with large softwoods or a standard for limbing. But the semi skip is a good all around chain. I also use the standard as well.

Here are a few things that I've found over the years. If you want a screamin cutttin saw run square ground skip or semi skip chisel chain as long as your saw can pull it. Downside of this dulls real quick. A decent sharpener will run about 500-1800 dollars for a square ground chain. Or you can do what I do run a round ground chisel, still alot faster than a chipper chain, but holds it's edge longer and you can field sharpen the chain in a pinch. A power bench sharpener will run half the cost of a square grinder. A square ground is almost impossible to do by hand.

What happens alot of times when you send a sawchain to a shop is they will over grind the teeth and not touch the rakers. If the rakers aren't cut to the proper lengh your saw will not cut at all or if they are cut to deep your saw will dog because it's trying to take to big of a bite out of the wood.

Bottom line of all this is if you get a decent round grinder you will be more than happy with it. The thing to remember is to get all and I mean ALL of the teeth the same lengh so ALL the cutting teeth are doing the work. Then do the rakers and get them ALL the exact same lengh as well. You will end up with a screamin saw again. I usually will handdress my chains a couple of times then I will put it on the grinder to get everything back in whack again. You'll be able to tell the difference.

Word of caution about the chisel chain if your not experienced with a saw stay will the chipper chain for now!!! Alot of the chisel chain isnt low kick back----remember the ten ten rule. I started the day with ten fingers and ten toes and I'll end the day with the same amount!!!

Here is a link to basic chain advise also the company is a very good company to deal with. http://www.madsens1.com/sub4.htm

I run huskys and love the rpms they give me box stock before getting the saw hopped up. You have a great saw as well should turn about 13,500 box stock. But with all the rpm's in the world an improperly sharpened chain will make that nice saw useless as you already know!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I've got to consider myself lucky I can sharpen my own or bring then to the Amish man down the road. He does an execellant job as well. I have used other shops with BAD luck.---Live and Learn--- If you can find someone who actually knows how to run a grinder stick with him! You can have the best grinder in the world and if you don't know how to run it properly---you can trash a chain in no time! If you don't do much cutting you can go with a bar mount file system by hand A pain to set up and it takes alot longer but you can have the same end result---a screamin saw.

Thats my two cents take it for what it's worth
Hope this helps
Gordon

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I had this same exact problem. I could not get my chainsaw to cut a stick of butter and I was discouraged to no end. I borrowed a friend's chainsaw and it cut like crazy. I took my chain to get it sharpened and it cut just as bad as before. I was so disgusted because I had it professionally sharpened and I thought there was nothing left to try and the saw was nearly new. It was a McColluch (sp?) In desperation I called Oregon Cutting Systems (the replacement chainsaw bar and chain people) and let me tell you guys, the guy I got on the phone spoke to me for a solid 20 minutes trying to diagnose my problem and it was not his chain or guide bar on my saw!!! I could not beleive the service this guy was giving me! He took my name and address down and sent me a file guide to fix the problem he thought i was having. He also sent a bunch of literature about what to look for and how to keep saw chain working in top shape. I was so impressed with the company and this man's effort to help me that I went out and bought a brand new guide bar and brand new chain for my saw and put it on before I even got anything from him in the mail. And my chainsaw has cut like crazy mad for three years and I have not worn out the Oregon bar or chain in that time. I also sharpen my chain by hand but I am going to give that up for a hand held sharpener pretty quick.

Here is a web page that will probably help you:

http://www.oregonchain.com/faq.htm#dullcutters

Sorry to be so long winded, but Oregon did me such a favor when they did not have to that I want to direct whatever business I can in their direction.

 

[gordon]

Thats one reason that they are the number one replacement bar and chain supplier. Let me ask what he sent you??? A depth gauge for the rakers???

Seems everyone sharpens the teeth and forgets the rakers!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Gordon

 

[MChalkley]

Gordon - Great post! And a great link, too - I hadn't seen that site. It's now bookmarked. Thanks!

As you mentioned, very rarely will most sharpening shops touch the rakers, so what happens is that the teeth are sharp, but they can't cut because the rakers hold them up out of the wood. The rakers don't have to be filed every time you file the cutters, but I find they have to be done every three or four times or you're wasting your time doing the cutters.

I've got an old Poulan S25 for light work, a Stihl 024 for medium work and a Stihl 044 for the big stuff. Like you, I much prefer the round full chisel chain but, as you say, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who's not highly experienced, because it's very bad at kick-back if you don't handle it properly.

MarkC

 

[Thomas]

Richard,
Learning to sharpen a chain like learning to ride your first bike.
There many devices on the market which will fit your needs,but your still free handing sharpening.

My 2 cents...learn free hand sharpening,for if your out in the woods you may need to touch up the chain now and than.


Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Bird]

I found some interesting reading on the site Gordon provided, too, but one thing I'm looking for is the "master links" for a #41 chain and haven't been able to find such.

My brother has a Stihl 044; fine saw but too heavy to suit an old man like me who generally has only relatively small stuff to cut. So I like my Poulan Wood Shark 1800 much better.

Bird

 

[TomG]

I've got the bar-mounted file system mentioned by Gordon. Works OK, but I wouldn't want to use it every day.

It's good your McCulloch is working out for you after your got past the chain problem. Maybe yours is a few years old and better than the one I bought last year. I found it so aggravating that it's now in the junk pile without ever having cut one thing. The replacement is a Husky, which is a pleasure to use.

 

[JonE]

Gordon, that is an excellent site. I've seen it before but lost the link. Thanks. Good info. also.
I have a bench mounted grinder for sharpening saw chain. It cost about $130. Expensive, yes but I do a lot of wood cutting for myself and others. It is just a waste of my time to cut with a dull or even semi dull chain. With my sharpener I can have a chain in shape within 10 min. I have developed my own method of sharpening so that when I'm done the tooth has instead of a round grind it looks more like a V. I'll get some pics to illustrate. Anyways, I always have a spare chain (only have 2 chains right now) that is sharp and ready to go. If I even detect a hint of it slowing down I change it because it is so easy to keep them sharp. Now it did take a lot of trial and error to get it right but now I have to be careful because they are almost razor sharp. I mean I get nice chips and curls of wood instead of saw dust! I'll post some pics tomorrow and where to get the sharpener.
Jon