Can I shift gears while moving?

[dieselfuelonly]

Quick question, I have a feeling the answer is NO, but I just wanted to confirm it:

My YM1401D has the 3spd tranny with hi/lo range. When driving, if I press in the clutch and try to change gears it will grind at me. Since I figure this is not a good noise to make on a continous basis, I come to a stop (or a VERY slow roll) before shifting gears. Is this the best thing to do, or should I just push the clutch in after revving out of 2nd gear, ram it in 3rd gear and GO?

Thanks guys, please bear with me, I am still learning .

 

[Tom_Veatch]

I have a "Powershift" transmission and they can be shifted 'on the go'. It sounds like yours is a geared transmission.

You are correct, that grinding noise coming out of the transmission is something to be avoided. Since the geared transmissions in these tractors do not contain synchronizing clutches, shifting gears while the tractor is moving is not a trivial exercise - think "double clutching" which may be a foreign term to those too young to have experienced the joys of non-synchronized geared transmissions prior to the days of "HydroMatic" and "Synchro-Mesh" transmissions. I guess even today 1st gear isn't synchronized in many manual transmissions and requires double clutching to downshift into 1st while in motion.

The good thing is that these tractors, unlike most over-the-road vehicles with manual transmissions, have more than enough torque to start from a standing stop in any gear available. The best practice is, where possible, to select your desired final gear while stopped and avoid shifting on the go.

If you absolutely must shift gears in motion, I'd suggest finding yourself some old geezer there locally who remembers and can, in person, pass on the finer points of matching engine speed to ground speed for the desired gear while shifting through neutral. It's not all that difficult but does require proper timing and not a little skill.

 

[dieselfuelonly]

So I get to double clutch my tractor now?!

Man, I wish that thing had a turbo, bet it would sound pretty cool... .

OK, so I understand now why I shouldn't "shift on the go" unless I can match the speed just right. The times that I would like to be able to shift while I am moving for example are after I pull out of a ditch or something (like the garden trench I was diggng) in 1st gear, I'd like to be able to speed up without coming to a complete stop.

Thanks for the help!

Dennis

 

[BB_TX]

I have a JD 950 which is a Yanmar in green. Mine will grind a little. I don't put a lot of pressure on the lever. I just press it a little and usually it will find the right speed and go into gear easy enough.

 

[LMTC]

The standard YM gear shift transmissions are not synchronized....transmission gears are one of the few things not made in aftermarket parts, mostly because there is so little need for them. They never seem to wear out....the only time we see a problem with them is when they have a number of teeth rounded, or several broken. I am told this almost always comes from misuse. Since the supply of replacement gears is limited to salvage, they are not cheap. So......if you want to play with fire, it's up to you. We tell our customers the tractor needs to be at a complete stop to shift the differential ranges, transmission gears, or pto ranges on all the standard gear shift models.

 

[Tractors4u]

Ditto what LMTC said. Your typical tractor does not shift like a manual transmission in an automobile. If you want to run in 2nd or 3rd gear, from a complete stop, shift to the desired gear and go.

 

[dieselfuelonly]

Ok, thanks for the help guys, that does make sense that its best to just come to a stop.

I don't know what I need to come to a stop to do, so I just come to a stop no matter what I do, whether it be changing gears, changing ranges, putting it in 4WD, engaging the PTO, etc.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Ok, thanks for the help guys, that does make sense that its best to just come to a stop.

I don't know what I need to come to a stop to do, so I just come to a stop no matter what I do, whether it be changing gears, changing ranges, putting it in 4WD, engaging the PTO, etc.

Changing ranges - yes. Changing gears - maybe not. Try double clutching. That would be, after taking it out of a gear, to pause in neutral just long enuf to let the clutch out and push it back in -- then shift into the next gear. If it doesnt grind youre not hurting it. If you have to come to a stop every time, well, thats the way it goes. That puts extra wear on the clutch tho, especially in the higher gears.
larry

 

[LMTC]

Ok, thanks for the help guys, that does make sense that its best to just come to a stop.

I don't know what I need to come to a stop to do, so I just come to a stop no matter what I do, whether it be changing gears, changing ranges, putting it in 4WD, engaging the PTO, etc.

On your 1401, all those things.

 

[California]

Ok, somebody correct me if this is wrong, but I think there is a major difference between these manual transmissions and the automotive type.

On the old cars (to mid 30's??) with no sychronizers, the shift lever slid a gear with small internal teeth into engagement with the small external teeth of another gear on the same shaft. Many teeth met at the moment of engagement.

In contrast, these full-stop transmissions slide one gear into engagement with another gear over on a second parallel shaft. Only one tooth meets that other gear. A speed difference can chip or shear off teeth.

My Yanmar clearly has a syncro for engaging the pto but not for the 4-speed or hi/low ranges. I don't like making a full stop for a shift but I consider it essential. Sometimes I think a shuttle shift would be nice!

 

[dieselfuelonly]

Out of curiosity, how is the shuttle shift different from a 3spd standard shift like mine? Is it synchronized like a transmission in a car?

 

[MJPetersen]

Sometimes I think a shuttle shift would be nice!

That is right--Thats why I have a 1510D And happy I am too.


with a shuttle shift you have ranges and PTO which you need to stop and shift, just like your 1401--but the 3 speed shifter and reverse can be shifted without using the clutch. ie you can start in 1st, then just push the lever to 2nd and on to 3rd. It is somewhat like manually shifting an automatic in a car. The transmission has hydraulic clutch packs that engage and disengage the different speeds. It is a very strong and for the most part trouble free tranny. It is a mechanical trans with hydraulic clutch packs. It is not an automatic with a torque converter, nor a hydrostatic with infinitely variable speed.

Mike

 

[kenmac]

Sometimes I think a shuttle shift would be nice!

It is

I can't answer about cars from the 30's. never driven 1

 

[LMTC]

Standard transmissions on cars were quite common into the early 70s at least.

 

[California]

I think nearly all automotive manual transmissions today are synchronized on everything but reverse. They started putting in brass synchronizer rings to absorb the mismatch of gear speeds, in the 30's.

If I remember correctly Chevrolet before 1955 had synchro only on second and third. Engaging first required a full stop for the earlier models.

 

[kenmac]

If I remember correctly Chevrolet before 1955 had synchro only on second and third. Engaging first required a full stop for the earlier models.

Can't remember . Wasn't here yet

 

[tallyho8]

. If I remember correctly Chevrolet before 1955 had synchro only on second and third. Engaging first required a full stop for the earlier models.

If I remember correctly, first gear wasn't syncronized until the 1960s.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

Your rememberer is working well. It wasn't until in the 60's when manual 4sp trans got popular that auto Co's added syncro to first gear on the 3sp trans.

 

[hosejockey2002]

I'll chime in as a former owner of a 1401D. In low range, you are going way too slow to even consider shifting on the fly. You stop as soon as you push in the clutch. On the occasions that I would take mine down the road in high range, I would often shift it on the fly. A caveat to that is I understood it was a non-synchro transmission and had to be shifted precisely to avoid damage. I've driven heavy non-synchro trucks and have a good "feel" for how to shift a non-synchro tranny without grinding. My 1401D required an extremely fast 1st to 2nd shift (without double-clutching) and a slightly slower 2nd to 3rd shift. I never had a problem shifting it without grinding. However, I never attemped to downshift. I am sure that the guys who say to never shift it on the fly are correct, although it requires some clutch slippage to get it rolling in 3rd gear high range.

 

[wombat]

I have shifted [rarely]on the fly with varying success on my YM2000.
Usually with a "grunch".
I'm pretty experienced with double declutching from driving Triumphs with old Masey Fergusson gearboxes.
This Yanmar doesn't seem to want to play the game though.
I figure it's because of the relatively slow speeds, high torque and low number of teeth on the cogs.[I'm just guessing]

My Yanny will crunch even at standstill if I have the brake on.
I have gotten to the stage that I drop the revs below 1000 when I put her into gear to reduce stress on the tranny.

Wombat