CK3510 1st gear grinding

[AmericanElm]

I have a CK3510 gear shift I purchased new in 2017. The dealer replaced the synchronizer hubs for 1st and 3rd, and 2nd and reverse in 2021, as the gears became difficult to shift.

Last year (2024), 1st gear, in any of the ranges L, M, or H, started to grind when I'd release the clutch. The transmission continues to grind until I depress the clutch. Sometimes, it's difficult to pull the gear shift lever back into neutral. There's no forward movement, just grinding. The gear shift lever feels like it's in 1st gear, but it's not.

My work around, if I need to use 1st gear.
1. Shift the transmission into 1st gear and have the range selector positioned in neutral.
2. Let the clutch completely out.
3. Depress the clutch and select the range and release the clutch.
This 3-step sequence produces no grinding. The tractor moves forward at the selected speed.

I have not experienced any grinding when shifting into R, 2nd, or 3rd gears.

I figure it's either a range synchronizer issue or a clutch issue. Can I resolve without splitting the tractor?

Any thoughts / recommendations?

 

[Robin Veerman]

What maintenance history has the transmission had, besides the warranty repair?

 

[AmericanElm]

Fall 2017 - changed transmission filter @ 58 hours
August 2019 - changed transmission filter @ 211 hours
July 2020 - changed transmission filter @ 317 hours
April 2021 - changed transmission fluid and filter @ 380 hours Transmission did not want come out of 2nd gear, beginning Feb/March while plowing snow.
May 2021 - dealer split tractor and replaced synchronizers @ 410 hours
October 2022 - change transmission filter @ 511 hours
Nov 2023 - changed transmission filter @ 604 hours

1st gear began to grind last spring (2024). Checked transmission fluid - clear and full. Grinding started out intermittent and got progressively worse. No grinding issue if I keep range selector in neutral, release the clutch, and then select the range.

 

[Coyote_CS2220]

It is always a good idea, particularly when you have not-very-nice transmission sounds, to drain the filter after changing and cut it open to check the filter pleats to see what is in there.

If you can hear grinding, there must be some metal filings being created.

Show the dealer the old filter if they did the transmission work.

 

[AmericanElm]

Yesterday, I changed engine oil and filter, transmission/hydraulic oil and filter, and blew out the air filter.

The transmission oil was darker than I like and there was a decent amount of iron filing on the drain plug magnet. When the range selector is in neutral R, 1, 2, and 3 all shifted smoothly. The detent clicks nicely into place in all four gears. 1st gear still grinds when I release the clutch, if the range selector is in L, M, or H. If I leave the range selector in neutral and release the clutch and then select the desired range the tractor moves forward, as it should.

Looks like I'll be splitting the tractor this spring, after I get my food plot tilled and planted, or early summer after I'm done with the first round of rotary cutting.

Going forward, I will be reducing Kioti's recommended transmission service by half. I'll be changing the transmission filter every 100 hours vs recommended 200 hours, and replace the transmission/hydraulic fluid every 200 hours vs recommended 400 hours.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Just personal opinion here, but my take is your transmission fluid, filter, ETC change interval will have little or no bearing on sychronizer life down the road. The facts as described, namely synchros replaced once already, and (probably) another on the way out tells me it's more of a design (or possibly operation) problem rather than an oil change interval issue. I've seen tractors with synchronized transmissions go for years with minimal (if any) attention to fluid changes without experiencing synchro failures.

 

[AmericanElm]

Harry, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I figure cutting the recommended maintenance interval in half is a relatively inexpensive experiment to see whether it'll impact the gear shifting issues I've experienced.

I started driving tractors in 1965 rolling oats for my late Dad on an averaged-sized WI dairy farm. No surprise, it was a Ford 8N. I drove a handful of other tractors through the years, along with a half of dozen semi tractors, including 8, 9, 12, and 13 speeds. Not a single transmission issue. Hopefully, my CK3510 gear shift is an outlier and others have not experienced similar issues. I admit, my transmission issues have been annoying. On a positive note, other than the two shifting issues, the tractor has performed flawlessly.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Well admittedly I'm no big fan of "Koreangineering" and so much of today's small tractor industry seems to come from that area. I often let that attitude affect my opinions, I don't see a lot of those tractors up close and personal but I read and hear a number of "not so good" experiences people have. Maybe it's just because much of the chatter is about the problems not the satisfied customers.

 

[AmericanElm]

I hoped when I purchased my CK3510 that it’d follow the reliability of Kubota when they entered the compact utility tractor market. I had a friend who purchased a Kubota sub-CUT 20+ years ago. He's experienced zero issues.

Kioti's 7 year engine and drivetrain warranty got me to make the leap. There’s been more than one occasion I’ve second guessed that I should have shopped for a low-hour Ford 2120 or JD 990. Water over the dam... I’ll circle back after I split the tractor, diagnose, and resolve the 1st gear issue.

LOL - after I repair it, I’m hoping it’ll outlast me. I figure I’ll be ready to give up tilling, planting, and mowing in 5 years. If I have an appetite to continue planting and rotary cutting, I’ll hire my neighbor. He’s married with four kids and enjoys moonlighting evenings and weekends. He’s handy, grew up helping on his grandpa’s farm. Always good to have a plan!

 

[DK35vince]

I hoped when I purchased my CK3510 that it’d follow the reliability of Kubota when they entered the compact utility tractor market. I had a friend who purchased a Kubota sub-CUT 20+ years ago. He's experienced zero issues.

I've owned my DK 35 for 24 years.
Minimal issues. I think I changed 1 battery (original lasted 11 years, still running the replacement battery) 1 tachometer cable ($12), a fuel filter bowl ($8) and a left rear axle seal ($35)

 

[AmericanElm]

Thanks Vince. Your DK 35 sounds a lot like the Ford 8N back on the farm. It ran 35+ years without a major issue - just points, plugs, oil changes and an occasional distributor cap and set of plug wires.

 

[ptsg]

On any of these 600+ hours, did you ever noticed any grinding? That's what kills synchronizers. Either caused from shifting without the clutch or a improperly adjusted clutch.

There are lots of Kioti tractors here in Portugal. All geared transmissions as we don't do HST here. Most stacking well above 2,000 and 3,000 hours as they're used for comercial brush cutting, so pretty much daily use with probably hundreds and hundreds of direction and gear changes during the day.

Haven't heard any issues with synchronizers. Same applies to other tractors with the so called Korean engineering.

 

[AmericanElm]

Wow! Great to have someone from 4K+ miles away to participate. Thanks PTSG!

Regarding having any gears grinding or other odd transmission behavior, the answer is no. I always used the clutch and never forced the tractor into gear.

As I mentioned above, I grew up on farm. I learned to drive on a Ford 8N and drove an Oliver 77 for many years bailing hay. Additionally, I had time on three Massey Fergusons - 235, 265, and Super 90. After I left home my Dad added a 2-85 White. I'd drive it on occasion for spring tilling. No issues with the transmissions driving any of those tractors.

I don't know if it's a contributing factor. Along with tilling, planting, and rotary cutting, I used my CK3510 to plow snow off my driveway. Some years it snows more than others, causing more winter hours. One winter, my wife and I cleaned up over a two dozen large willows and box elders that came down in a wind storm. That probably put 30+ hours of 0-20 degree F on the tractor. I skidded the trees and piled them with the loader into a large brush pile.

I mentioned the winter usage as that's when the transmission acted up, both times, while plowing snow. I attempting to shift from 2nd into R, when the transmission didn't want to come out of 2nd gear. Really startled me as I had never experience a tractor getting stuck in a gear. Sticking in 2nd and R became progressively worse. That led to the dealer replacing the synchronizer hubs and rings.

Similar, I was plowing snow when I shifted the tractor into 1st gear to scrape hard pack snow off of a concrete apron. I was in L or M range. When I left the clutch out the gears ground. Never have experienced that happening in the past either. It took me a while to discover, if I kept the range in neutral, shifted into 1st and released the clutch, and then depressed the clutch and selected the range, the transmission would work.

I'm glad to hear you've had no transmission issues with your tractors, that's fantastic! Hopefully I'll get mine figured out.

 

[Paul McILwain]

I have a 2013 LS 5030c ( Korean) with a Mitsubishi engine and have 1300 hrs on it with zero issues other than new battery 2 years ago. I am ashamed to say I have never changed the oil or filter in the Tran/ hyd system and works flawless. I change engine oil and filter annually using T6.Transmission oil still looks very clean but plan to change it and filter soon. Have not changed front axle oil either.I am sure to get disciplined about this but at 83 years my skin is pretty thick

 

[AmericanElm]

LOL - Paul, thanks for sharing! Growing up on a farm, we were pretty good about changing tractor engine oil - annually at minimum. In the 60s and 70s, we ran straight 10 in the winter and 30 in the summer. Transmission fluid, much longer intervals between changes, likely 4+ years.

I’ve closely followed the maintenance intervals documented in Kioti’s owner’s manual. And I purchased the CK3510 shop manual, which provides a detailed maintenance schedule.

Kioti’s schedule for the CK3510 -
Manual Transmission Filter, change after 50 run hours and every 200 afterward
Manual Transmission Fluid, change after 400 run hours

All I know - something is amiss. I’ll be digging into the repair in a couple of weeks. I have to get the food plots tilled and planted before the tractor gets split.