California permit for a pole barn

[TheLorax]

I'm finding that for my area (which is lake county) a pole barn construction is not permitable and one would need to have an engineer sign off on it and then present plans to the planning department for approval. I think this is for pretty much all of California, not sure how it works if a county can over ride the state, but the state building standards commission does not recognize a pole barn construction as a viable building method.

This seems insane to me because everything I've been reading on the internet says that pole barns are cheaper, at least as strong as other standard foundation construction methods, and quicker to build. Anyway, wondering if anyone here from California knows if there are ways around this? I guess if I have to hire an engineer and go through all that it will be more expensive and more of a hassle than it is worth?

 

[bcp]

Must not be a state wide problem.

From:
http://americanpolebarnkits.com/states/california-pole-barn-kits/

American Pole Barn Kits is the #1 resource for pole barn kits in California providing organized and useful information to save time and money on pole barn kits in California.


Bruce

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Most of the kits and contractor erected unis have all engineering already done except the local site adapt to soil and local code issues. OR and WA pole structures are still allowed but a permit and engineering are required.

Ron

 

[flusher]

I'm finding that for my area (which is lake county) a pole barn construction is not permitable and one would need to have an engineer sign off on it and then present plans to the planning department for approval. I think this is for pretty much all of California, not sure how it works if a county can over ride the state, but the state building standards commission does not recognize a pole barn construction as a viable building method.

This seems insane to me because everything I've been reading on the internet says that pole barns are cheaper, at least as strong as other standard foundation construction methods, and quicker to build. Anyway, wondering if anyone here from California knows if there are ways around this? I guess if I have to hire an engineer and go through all that it will be more expensive and more of a hassle than it is worth?

Building code enforcement in CA is the responsibility of the county, not the state.

There's nothing special about a pole barn. For all structures larger than 120 sq ft, you need to file a plot plan that is very comprehensive. See the plot plan instructions for use in Tehama County, CA where I had my ranch until I sold it last year.

http://www.co.tehama.ca.us/images/stories/Building/PLOT PLAN REQ.050697.pdf

I had to go through the permitting process starting in 2005 for my 1800 sq ft house, 1100 sq ft metal shop building, for a 20 x 36 ft metal carport and for a 500 sq ft run in type equipment shed.

Under some conditions you can qualify for what's called an "ag exempt building permit". The info on these is here

http://www.co.tehama.ca.us/images/stories/Building/Ag Exempt Requirements from ubc.pdf

You're right. CA has some of the most stringent building permit regulations in the nation. It's a PITA but it helps to prevent your neighbors from erecting crap buildings that lower property values in your neighborhood.

And be advised that the county building departments do periodic drive by inspections of your property and check for new construction. If they can't find a building permit in the files, you can bet that they will be in contact with you pronto. They want their fee money and any fines that they can slap on.

Same thing when you sell your property and escrow opens. The building department will check the files so see if your buildings have been properly permitted, which can hold up the escrow closing until the fees and fines are paid.

Good luck and welcome to CA. Enjoy the weather.

 

[jack707]

your not free living in cal.

 

[dickfoster]

your not free living in cal.

That's a true statement. It ain't called the People's Republic of California for nuttin. I heard a trucker on the CB once declare as he crossed the state line "it's great to be back in the USA". Of course he was leaving CA and crossing into AZ. When traveling to other states, I always wait to cross the border before gassing up because it's usually about a buck less per gallon.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Better change your profile from Idaho to Peoples Republic of California.

You would have been better off to stay on Idaho.

 

[Wagtail]

As flusher said... and it's not unique to California, I went through the same process here in Tasmania when I had a carport + covered entertainment area attached to my house. Architect plans submitted (including rain water management), time-period to complete, final building inspection by the Shire/County. Mostly it's "Townie" regulations that have spilt over to rural. There's a requirement to 'publish' your plans/proposal in case your neighbours have objections; this is usually waved for rural.

I had to do the process again when I had my 5-bay shed built. A lot of 'fees' were waved because it's an 'agricultural' building. The building "class" construction standard regarding exposure to wind is important.

Google Earth allows 'them' to see if anything new has been built that they don't know about.

Mind you, once they've signed off on the completed structure(s) they're bloody quick to up your property tax assessment!

 

[STx]

Can you imagine how long it would have taken this country to spread from shore to shore if everything built had to be permitted? There are a lot of sod roof houses, early clap board farm houses and such that would never have passed an inspection. Oddly, a lot of those structures are still standing over 100 years later despite that and this modern building that met all the codes and passed all the inspections fell over in a rain storm...



"I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Still the scariest words in the English language.

 

[STx]

Can you imagine how long it would have taken this country to spread from shore to shore if everything built had to be permitted? There are a lot of sod roof houses, early clap board farm houses and such that would never have passed an inspection. Oddly, a lot of those structures are still standing over 100 years later despite that and this modern building that met all the codes and passed all the inspections fell over in a rain storm...

View attachment 466641

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Still the scariest words in the English language.

 

[joeyd]

Better change your profile from Idaho to Peoples Republic of California.

You would have been better off to stay on Idaho.

x2 on staying in Idaho!!!

 

[quicksandfarmer]

And be advised that the county building departments do periodic drive by inspections of your property and check for new construction. If they can't find a building permit in the files, you can bet that they will be in contact with you pronto. They want their fee money and any fines that they can slap on.

Around here they just compare the aerial photos, saves a lot of driving.

 

[Zerk]

I think they just want to drive up labor costs, probably bribed by some union. Plus they probably want it to look pretty.


I see all these ads for CA milk. What are farmers doing out there? Getting gouged to have it signed off, or in AG zoning. I am in mixed AG zoning. If I was right in a town, they may have rules about making it pretty, dunno. Probably depends on town.

Think of all the trees that will have to die, to build it with conventional framing.

 

[Zerk]

Why do people live in CA?

Problem is, they are moving out of CA, and ruining other states.

 

[cat fever]

Why do people live in CA?

Problem is, they are moving out of CA, and ruining other states.

Very true, and I'm in one of the states they come to.:smiley_aafz:

 

[dfkrug]

Building code enforcement in CA is the responsibility of the county,
not the state.

Yes, the building authority is the county or the city. However, there is a CA state building code
that, supposedly, can not be superceded by a city or county. So, a county could not say, disallow
Romex-type wiring, which is allowed by the state. Good luck fighting that battle.

Anyway, I believe all 58 counties have an "Ag Exemption", which is a good thing, but it may
not allow any plumbing or electrical, as in my county. You have to "prove" an ag use, too.

The most rural of CA's counties have the least code requirements, so you guys up North may
have it best.

Getting an engineer to sign off on what you plan is a PITA, but it is usually enough for
the building authority to allow many different types of construction.

I am not promoting unpermitted construction, but I have run into that problem in
the state. Enforcement is usually by complaint and recording a violation on the
title. Buying/selling such a property is done "as-is" with disclosure. BTDT.

I am certainly not going to defend CA, except for the weather. The weather makes
it worth living here. Barely. And that's after also having resided in OH, MI, MA, AZ,
and IL.

 

[Cord]

California is a earthquake prone state so they're probably wanting a PE to look at the design for seismic reasons. Because agricultural buildings are not occupied, they have a lower risk category that may be exempted from this requirement. It's not always about big government, once in a while they're actually trying to protect you from yourself.

 

[handirifle]

San Luis Obispo county, first requires you have at least 20 acres, for a pole barn, then it can best be built under and ag permit. Cost is minimal. It goes by county, and this is one of the nicer ones. By the way, if you live rural, good luck getting fire insurance on any new buildings. Almost no insurance companies are insuring in "high fire risk zones". We even have to pay an extra "fee" to CalFire since we live rural, even though the fire department is less than three miles from me, on my same paved, 2 lane, road.

Insurance companies are driving MANY of the new building codes. You could have a home built from concrete blocks here, and metal roof, and they will not insure it.

 

[handirifle]

Why do people live in CA?

Problem is, they are moving out of CA, and ruining other states.

Because about 320 days a year I can go where I want, when I want and not worry about freezing to death, or 80% humidity, or whether or not it will be sunny. I can travel to the mountains for a hike, or ski (if I still did) a hunt or camping, or fishing, or I can go to the beach for a swim, or surf fishing (yummy perch) or just laying on the beach. All in the same day if I choose. I never have to worry about salt rusting my car, or just about anything rusting my car, (not so if you LIVE on the beach) and both of ours are at least 10 years old. Still look new.

Since i have bad asthma, and allergies, I do not have to request a non-smoking table in a restaurant or any place else for that matter. I grew up with parents that smoked in the car and home all the time. I now have 60% of normal lung capacity. I worked right next to people (literally seated as an Air Traffic Controller) that smoked and could care less what my issues were.

I HATE the politics and gun laws here, but sacrifices have to be made no matter where you live. I have lived in many states, OH (born there, lived for 19 years before the Army), Washington, South Carolina, Texas, Kentucky, and even more states, for short periods of time, and except for politics, overall this is the best one. Is there a LOT of weirdness here, yup, but I can name cities in some VERY conservative states where it goes on as well, so no one is immune. Guess what, it WILL get worse elsewhere, not because of this state, but because of social liberalism. Everyone wants free crap, and they want to be part of a "special" group with special rights. If you think that's all in or from CA, it's time to wake up.

My electricity bills average $110 a month, all year, and I use one 280 gallon tank of propane a year. I live on 3 acres, rural, and am one of the smallest lots around. The neighbors properties I deer hunt on, each have 160 acres. We pretty much do what we want out here, and no one bothers us. They don't want to either.

I have my house, my well, my workshop, and my 5th wheel all hooked to power. I have 2 meters, 200 amp each and the electric bill is for both. The propane covers heating, cooking and hot water, the elec covers lights and AC.

Look up Atascadero, Ca in the weather channels to see our average temps. That's the closest "big" town near me. Santa Margarita is closer, but about 1200 pop.

THAT's why we live here. We pay for it, but worth it in many respects. Do I love everything here, nope, not by a long shot, and not since Reagan left. Even he was a bit liberal in some respects. As long as University professors are allowed for force feed out kids with their liberal garbage, it will continue to get worse. Joseph Stalin said "If he could have our kids for three years, in schools, he would change the world." Well most degrees take 4, so I guess he was right.

 

[California]

Seems to me 1) just buy a kit pole barn that comes with engineered plans and bypass a lot of complexity.

2) I read today that Southern California is way overdue for 'the big one', an earthquake including possibly 1,800 deaths. Tension along the San Andreas Fault has reached extreme levels and is going to cut loose sooner or later. So ... requiring plans engineered for earthquake stability is in the public interest. Also in the interest of the insurance companies who may have lobbied for that requirement.


"I'm from the government, I'm here to help you". I loved to start an audit with that when reviewing contractors' claimed costs for highway construction Contract Change Orders performed under Time&Materials. It was rare to find an overbilling and nearly always that was an argument about assigning relevant indirect, overhead costs to the task, very rare to find a mis-statement of direct costs.

Earthquakes? During the 1994 Northridge Earthquake (Los Angeles) (link to photos) the state's jobsite managers at highway construction sites were directed to use your own judgement, get all available contractor's forces out there Right Now and start rescue efforts, stabilize things, move debris, make detours. We don't have time to negotiate price just send your crews out there the moment we get off the phone. HQ Auditors will later visit you to review your claimed costs. A year later - that was me. The traditional contractors hadn't overbilled, but a few new firms didn't realize their claimed costs had to be supported by provable labor and material costs. In one case I dis-allowed a subcontractor's entire claim for materials when he couldn't show me any purchase documents (and told me some real whoppers about he bought everything on his wife's credit card etc). We took that amount away from the prime contractor and let him settle with this sub ... Your Tax Dollars At Work.