Cabin Heat Question

[RotorWrench]

Hello all. New to the forum but prior lurker. I appreciate the accumulated experience and knowledge here and have used it for many questions.

I will hopefully be getting a new-to-me 2013 5600 within the next week or so, depending on the current owner's schedule.

I have some experience with the Toolcat due to using one for miscellaneous chores at our hangars but predominantly in warmer weather.

My question pertains to the cabin heat, specifically, the effectiveness of the defroster or the ability of the cabin heat to keep the windshield clear of ice/freezing blowing snow in - 20F to - 30+ F temps. The primary use of this Toolcat will be replacing a Holder C5000 for snow removal, usually pre-dawn or at night and by December many times under the conditions previously mentioned.

My current Holder doesn't have any problems with this, in fact I often have to crack the side windows but I have used a couple of tractors whose cabin heat could not keep up with it, the snow hitting the moderately warm glass, melting and immediately freezing, eventually overcoming the wiper's ability to clear it. Very common around here but a royal pain. In those cases I was better off with the cabin unheated.

I would appreciate information on this so I'll at least be prepared to use my workarounds if I have to deal with it. We already had another foot of snow a couple of days ago with winds and single digits. I'll probably be dealing with that issue as soon as I get it.

Thanks

 

[ruffdog]

I think being that the engine and hydraulics is under the seats and in the tunnel between the seats, it greatly helps heating the cab. It is warm in the summer if not running the A/C. I never have a problem of the heater not being able to heat enough and once warm, I take my coat off. I know sometimes I crack one or two windows open if the windows are fogging up. It has never been a problem that I had to stop or wipe a window off.

 

[RotorWrench]

I think being that the engine and hydraulics is under the seats and in the tunnel between the seats, it greatly helps heating the cab. It is warm in the summer if not running the A/C. I never have a problem of the heater not being able to heat enough and once warm, I take my coat off. I know sometimes I crack one or two windows open if the windows are fogging up. It has never been a problem that I had to stop or wipe a window off.

Thank you. It must not be an issue for most. I guess I'll just find out in use.

 

[steve tym]

My last tractor I had an aftermarket rear window defroster. Thought about doing the same to the windshield. Maybe.

 

[seville009]

Not familiar with Toolcats, but I use a skidsteer with a heated cab for snow removal.

I just rig up/plug in a small, strong portable fan to keep the windows from fogging up.

 

[laurencen]

never had a issue with heat and defrost, only time it could not keeo up was during blizard cinditions blowing snow and -35C, into the wind it would start to freeze on the wipers coming back it would melt it.

when its -15 to -20cC have to turn it down

bigger issue the block heater does nothing when its -25C, if its not indoors its not starting

 

[RotorWrench]

never had a issue with heat and defrost, only time it could not keeo up was during blizard cinditions blowing snow and -35C, into the wind it would start to freeze on the wipers coming back it would melt it.

when its -15 to -20cC have to turn it down

bigger issue the block heater does nothing when its -25C, if its not indoors its not starting

Thanks, good to know. That's disappointing about the block heater. My equipment is in an unheated shop and those temps are common for a lot of our night winter temps. I'll probably just use an external heater.

 

[laurencen]

indoor unheated will fair better as its out of the wind and weather, picked up a Wabasto coolant heater but just not enough room to mount it anywhere

 

[RotorWrench]

I use an oil pan heater right now on the Holder but it's an air-cooled Deutz, which makes a difference compared to a liquid cooled engine.
I'll probably do the same on the Toolcat. You're right though, even an unheated shelter helps.

 

[ruffdog]

Doesn't the older Toolcat have a Kubota engine? Is the normal block heater a freeze plug type? I can't believe that if it was working properly that it wouldn't make a big difference.

2010 toolcat 5610 block heater #?

 

[RotorWrench]

Yes. I believe they were Kubota engines through 2014, switching to Doosan engines in 2015. I'm not familiar with Kubota engines,. Mainly domestic tractor engines.

I'm not sure what block heater @laurencen was referring to that performed so poorly. Normally coolant block heaters work very well.

Maybe the wattage is insufficient for sub-zero temps. I remember a number of years ago one of my Ford trucks had a factory block heater that was too low a wattage for extremely cold temps and most of us around here were replacing them with higher power aftermarket ones.

 

[ruffdog]

Being that the Toolcat has limited room around the engine compartment, I would try the OEM type block heater first, make sure it works, and give it a try. With all the added pumps etc hanging on the engine (like a skid steer),you will want it plugged in longer. The newer TC has a Doosan engine that uses a dry pocket type heater.

 

[laurencen]

the old series A Toolcat worked better that was a wet type block heater using the frost plug holes, the net series uses a dry heater so no contact with actual coolant, you can remove or exchange it without draining fluid,

 

[RotorWrench]

Being that the Toolcat has limited room around the engine compartment, I would try the OEM type block heater first, make sure it works, and give it a try. With all the added pumps etc hanging on the engine (like a skid steer),you will want it plugged in longer. The newer TC has a Doosan engine that uses a dry pocket type heater.

That's what I'll try first, the factory heater, then go from there. I put my heaters on a timer, going on early morning for three hours and then three hours before I get home from work.

 

[laurencen]

3 hours at -25C on the Toolcat does little,, mine I plug in any time temp gets below 20 and never unplug it

 

[ruffdog]

3 hours at -25C on the Toolcat does little,, mine I plug in any time temp gets below 20 and never unplug it

Does it work? Can you feel any warmth from the engine? Being that the cost isn't too bad on those, I would at least swap it out to try a new one.

 

[laurencen]

it does work, checked with ammeter anf feel, the heat element id hot but around it is not, likely only 25% of the heat gets to motor

picked up a wabasto heater but there is no room to install it on the Toolcat

 

[RotorWrench]

I was talking to our Kubota shop this morning and he said they have sources for higher wattage block heaters for several of their engines. He was pretty sure they had gotten them for the Toolcat in the past, back when they were also the a Bobcat dealer. The parts guy that was most familiar with it and was there when they sold Bobcat parts is supposed to be back from elk hunting tomorrow. I'll know something then for anyone interested.

 

[laurencen]

sadly my Toolcat is not the Kubota engine and last time I spoke with the dealer nothing was available they suggest keeping it indoors

 

[RotorWrench]

Well, my situation has changed now. The deal with the 2013 5600 fell through due to a drive motor issue that the owner was balking at resolving. I closed a deal on a 520 hour 2014 5610 today which is for the better as I was originally trying to get a 5610 anyway.

The situation now means I am dealing with a Doosan engine instead of a Kubota, with the apparently inefficient dry pocket block heater. I'll have to wait and see. I hope I have better luck than @laurencen has. Preheating the engine is a major issue where I'm at. I may have to get creative.