Buying Vehicles Below Invoice

[dmccarty]

I know you think this is spam and Dan is selling cars for a living! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif ................

Nope but I learned some things this week on http:// [url]www.ford-diesel.com [/url] and figured I should pass it on to TBN. Especially with the thread that started about buying a diesel or gas burner....

Ford has a program to sell vehicles UNDER invoice. The actually have three plans, A, X and I think Z. I don't know what the Z plan is about. The A plan it the price that Ford employees get when buying a Ford product. The X Plan is 4% more than the A Plan. The X Plan works out to a a few hundred dollars under invoice. I have heard about 1.5%.

Here is how this works. First you have to be a member of some company or organization that participates in the X Plan. There is a website at Ford that one has to go to with a special number that is specific to the organization that is participating in the plan. With this number you generate a PIN. You take the numbers to a participating dealer, pick out a vehicle, they show you the X-Plan price, and you are done. This is only for new cars. You have to work out trade ins and such with the dealer.

I got lucky and found out my company participates in this plan. If you search for X-Plan and EAA on the above website you can find out far more information especially on joining an organization that is participating in the plan.

I don't know if other brands have such a program. Maybe someone else knows...

Since I'm looking at a Ford its a good deal! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

The special prizes are for all Ford brands such as Lincoln, Mercury, Mazada, Range Rover, Volvo and even Jaguar. The price mechanism seems to be different on the "foreign" brands but I have not dug deeply into those prices. I need a truck! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I have not tried to buy under the plan as of yet but I'm getting close. There seems to be lots of people buying on the Ford-Diesel site and they seem satisfied. Some of the seem to be buying the trucks from a dealer in CA since he has a presence on the website. Kinda like Carver. The guy will ship the vehicle anywhere in the US.

BTW, the ford-diesel site has lots of information about Ford trucks and seems to be a friendly and informative as TBN. I think CowBoyDoc mentioned this site once or twice and it is a good one if you are looking at Ford trucks. Lots of great information.

Hope this helps...
Dan McCarty

NOTE: I just found out that my company has a similar program with GM. I have not looked at the GM but it sounds like the Ford X Plan.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by dmccarty on 11/29/01 03:52 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[snowman]

Dan;

I went to that site - searched for "x-plan" and "eaa" and nothing came up relative to this program that you describe.

Can you give the exact link to the spot where you found it?

Thanks.

 

[dmccarty]

snowman,

Check under the "Ordering Information" Thread.

I used to think the the Ford Diesel site did not have much traffic. But then I noticed that they have a box that defaults to show only the last five days worth of messages. If you changed that to show all there are a huge number of conversations. I think their search function might default to search only for the short period of time.

The first three or four pages, they have 43 pages under "Ordering Information" has a few conversations about the X Plan and EAA. EAA is the Experimental Aircraft Association or some such. So you might see conversations about aircraft and such...

Later...
Dan McCarty

 

[Miklos]

With information that I dug up on the net, I was able to buy a loaded '01 Dodge Cummins 3500 4x4 HO 6sp for sightly less than invoice. That was even with a V-10 as a trade in. There are websites that tell what the dealers pay for the vehicles, which is usually list, but then the factories rebate the dealers back a certain percentage, I think it ranged from 4 to 7%. They stated that with the dealer rebates and rolling customer rebates back to the dealer as part of the deal, a dealer can easily pay all overhead, commissions and still have a profit. Armed with this knowledge, I got the exact deal that I wanted, just took two hours of negotiating. "If you guys don't want to do this deal, the dealer down the street probably will.""I already explained it to you that you will still make money if you do this deal."

For Dodge diesel fans there is the Turbo Diesel Registry

 

[dmccarty]

One can always try to negotiate a deal with any dealer. And one might get to the invoice price or there abouts. The way the X Plan works is that there is no negotiation. The price is there and there is no haggling for hours to get near invoice. The price is already below invoice.

Even with the X plan price the deal is making 4% over what was called "Dealer net." The X plan looks to be about 1.5% below the Invoice price. So the dealer is making some money just not as much.

Also what is invoice? I have looked at quite a few websites and the nonFord websites are not very accurate. They list prices that do not match the vehicle stickers. Ford is accurate though! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Later...
Dan McCarty

 

[jwstewar]

My company also participates in the X-plan. We recently tried to buy a Ford Explorer through it. Yeah, the price they came back with was decent but not great. I've made better deals on my own - always GM though. Then on top of this fact because the X-plan price was "so low" they didn't want to give me anything for trade-in. I guess I'll keep driving the Accord/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif awhile longer while my wife drives my Silverado /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif. Damn I want out of this lease, Hondas hold their value until you go to trade them in - of course, I guess this goes for all vehicles. They get you coming and going on cars.....

 

[Alan L.]

In August I bought a 2001 Yukon XL for $750 under invoice. With a $1500 rebate and another $1000 credit for Ford pickup owners it ended up $3250 under invoice. The price was $35,000 and I think the sticker was about $44K. No trade-in, and got 5.9% financing (could have gotten 2.9% in place of the $1000 rebate).

Alan L., TX
South of Bugtussle
North of Mustang
On the banks of Buck Creek

 

[dummy]

Did you not like the V-10 engine?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

'Z' plan is same as 'A' plan except it is for retirees.
'X' plan can be obtained for you by any ford employee or retiree. The plan has been around for a long time.. it used to be just for company execs. and other important people.

 

[Miklos]

"Did you not like the V-10 engine?"

Ummm, actually I loved that V-10. The truck was an auto with 4.10's. It outpulls the H.O. Cummins 6spd with 4.10's that I have now. Faster on the flats and up the hills. The V-10 got 13-14 mpg empty and 8-10 mpg towing in the hills. The typical load towing was packing a 11'6" Caribou camper that weighs almost 4000lbs loaded and towing a 17' enclosed trailer with two snowmobiles or two sportbikes (depending on the time of the year) for a tow weight of almost 5000lbs. It is the only rig I have had to use the brakes on going up steep hills to slow for corners.

That heavy (but roomy) camper really needed to go on a dually. I kicked around the idea of doing an Arrowcraft conversion, but as fuel continued to rise in price, I began considering trading in for another diesel. I didn't think I would be able to afford one because I was not going to pay 40K for a truck. I wound up getting a loaded 4x4 dually for 32k. Couldn't pass that deal up!

I do really like the quad cab on the dually, the V-10 was extended cab w/o the rear doors,'97. That 6spd is great behind the Cummins and tows very smoothly, especially important when towing the horses. The Dually is getting 15mpg empty and 13 towing with 4k miles on it. It should improve as it get broke in.

Things I miss about the V-10:
Instant accelleration, no waiting to build boost.
Automatic tranny in traffic jams.
Listening to classical music while driving.
Looking at the faces of diesel owners as I pass them on the hills.

Don't believe anyone that tells you gas engines can't move the weight. I've towed with Ford 460's, Dodge 440's and 488's. Just get 4.11 gears and an overdrive transmission. If it's an auto, run the largest tranny cooler you can get along with a trans temp guage. The only down fall is 8 to 10 mpg. I have not owned a Chevy, but I'm sure results are the same.

Sucks, now that I have a diesel, fuel is cheap again.

 

[TerryinMD]

Miklos,

Whoaa.. You got 13-14 mpg with a Dodge V-10. That's better than my 1500 with a 360 Ram. I was told by my dealer that I could expect 8-10 mpg with the V-10 in a 2500.

?????

Terry

 

[Miklos]

V-10 Mileage

13-14 empty, 8-10 working hard. Before I bought it, the dealer told me not to get the 4.10's, but I'm glad I did. I ran 285's on it that were 32" dia, no lift.

I don't have much experience with the late model 360's, but I did drive the company truck, a 96 2wd 2500 Dodge, 360ci auto, from Portland Or to Seattle Wa and back. I checked the mileage and got 18.37mpg. That was going 80mph with about 1000lbs in the back.

I can get pretty bad mileage no matter what I'm driving, if I try hard enough. It's easy to drive for good mileage too, though.

"Dont drive it like you stole it, drive it like you want it to last"

 

[cp1969]

The company where I work has agreements with Ford and GM, except it's not 'X' plan, it's 'X' plan plus 4%, which I figure is worse than going out an negotiating on your own.

Several people I work with have bought new Fords using this plan, but none that I've asked bothered to check Kelly's to see how much above (or below) dealer invoice that 'good deal' turned out to be.

I can't afford one right now, but the Dodge dealer's first offer over the phone was for $500 under dealer invoice to order a Cummins Ram, and unless I miss my guess, that's probably less than 'X' plan plus 4%, and may in fact be less than 'X' plan with no extra added on.

I also predict that once this 0% stuff goes away, showrooms will be empty. A lot of people have bought cars that they didn't really need but thought they couldn't afford to pass up such a deal, and won't be back for quite a while.

 

[dmccarty]

cp1969,

From the responses I'm wondering if people are comparing apples and oranges.

MSRP - List Price of the vehicle.
Right now on the trucks I'm looking into, 4x4, Crew Cab, Diesel, 8' bed, XLT package, etc runs $40,000 to $43,000. A 2001 that I researched, and has since sold, listed for $39,325.

Invoice - Rought 12% less than MSRP. The same researched truck's invoice was $34,795 or 11.52% less.

A Plan - I read as the Dealer Net price. It appears to be something like 5.5% LESS than invoice.

X plan - 4% above A Plan. The same researched truck's X-Plan price is 1.2% LESS than invoice, $34,392.

There was a $1,000 rebate that would also be subtracted to a final $33,392 but then we get into taxes! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I have never gotten a vehicle less than invoice. Course the last truck I bought was during the feeding frenzy where everyone had to have a large truck/SUV. I tried an AutoFinder type company in 1995 and the dealers would not even give them trucks to sell. Demand was to high. Right now the same AutoFinder company can get me a truck for $300 over invoice.

I went to the dealer last night and it was looking grim on finding the truck I wanted. But suprise suprise they actually had a SRW 350, 4x4, Crew Cab and A MANUAL 6 speed on the lot. For some reason the dealers are not ordering the 6 speeds and I don't get it. Its the only manual I have seen in the dozens of inventories I have researched. Drove the truck and was very impressed. Very.

Today, we started talking price. X-plan makes most of the discussion a no brainer. The big deal will be the trade in on my truck. I researched the dealers prices on used cars and they are coming in at NADA retail values. So I want NADA value for trade in on my truck... Seems fair to me. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif They still will make at least $2,000 on the trade in and at least 4% on the new truck plus whatever incentives the dealers get.

If they hold out on the trade in price I won't buy. Eventually in a few months I think there will be rebates on the 2002. The low interests loans only go so far on 40,000 dollar vehicles.

I'll post what happens.

Later...
Dan

 

[gerard]

Don't feel bad Terry - I get around 9mpg around town in a Ram 2500 w/ V8. Get 14 or 15 maybe if all highway. Not impressed with the mileage though, thats for sure!

 

[cp1969]

Your post pretty much confirms my suspicions--that better deals can be had than X plan.

The nearby Ford dealer has been selling new cars and truck for $50 over dealer invoice since at least 1988 (that's when I bought my first one from him). His profit was always the dealer holdback, which is around three percent of MSRP. Nowdays, $50 over dealer invoice is no bargain--for instance, the Dodge dealer who offered to order a Ram for $500 under dealer invoice. Where are they making their money? Holdback on this truck would be around $1000, so they're willing to make $500 to order one. $500 is still a fair amount of money for taking an order and prepping a vehicle.

Wish I could afford it.

 

[dmccarty]

I have talked to lots of people here at work and nobody as ever seen a dealer that was pricing at Invoice. And certainly NONE of the dozens of dealers I have visited with over the years are selling at Invoice to start. The only dealer that I know of that does this is in OK and he has a no haggle dealership. Its Dodge which I'm not interested in buying but he is winning kudo's from people who deal with him.

Certainly there are no dealers in the central portion of NC that are selling at invoice that I know of and I have visited lots lots in person and via the web.

I ended up buying a new truck on Saturday. The sales dude did not know that I was eligible for X Plan. His starting over was 5% under MSRP. He also threw out the price they were giving me for trade in. One I knew my trade in I told him was purchasing under the X Plan. I don't have the exact number on the deal since the bottom line, i.e., my loan amount after the trade in was a few bucks better than I thought, so I did not work out the percentages. But I had to be 12-13% below MSRP. The trade in price was $500 lower than I wanted and after 30 minutes of haggling the dealer had moved up $400 which was good enough.

There ain't no way in H.ll that the dealer was going to sell me a new truck for 12-13%($3000+) LESS than MSRP without X Plan.

You had better frequent that dealer to keep him in business! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

If I could have gotten a 2001, they had one in which I was interested but it sold, I would have gotten another $1000 off X Plan or 3.9% financing.

The bottom line in my area is that the X Plan is the best anyone is going to get unless they are a dealer/brand employee.

Later...
Dan McCarty

 

[cp1969]

From Kelly's Blue Book, the Ford Super Duty, typically equipped as on my nearby Ford dealer's lot, lists for $37,520. It can be bought by anyone who walks in for $32,965, which is $50 over dealer invoice (and roughly 88% of list price). Better deals than this can be had, though, because in addition to the $50, the dealer will be making 3% of MSRP which amounts to $1125.60. This money is up for negotiation.

You could very well be correct about geography having an influence. If everybody who walks in pays MSRP without quibbling, you'll have a hard time buying one for invoice--the predominant fool (with money) always sets the prices.

Apparently it's harder to sell vehicles around here than where you're at.

 

[IllMarty]

I think most dealerships do not give much in trade and make alot there also. I just bought our van which listed for 36,600 for 31996 which was invoice price(87% of list). Dodge also kicked in the $1500 rebate which lowered the cost to 30496 or 83.33% of list.The dealer made his 3% hold back. They were willing to give me 5,000 for my trade which I sold to Carmax for 6,500. Kelley listed this trade-in being sold retail as 9300 asking price, so the dealer is trying to make 4,300 on the trade, which will in all actuallity would be sold for 8,000 or so. Invoice is just the starting point around Chicago unless the vehicle is in high demand.