building a chimney question

[digger2]

Hey guys,hope somebody can answer this one.
I'm going to be building a chimney real soon before the snow starts to think too hard about coming down.This is your standard block chimey with a 8" flue (clay) liner.Nothing fancy.Actually,i'm replacing the original 30 yr. old chimney.(liners cracked)It'll be about 18' high when done.
Actually i built a chimney about 12 years ago(at my old house)and its not that hard but there is something i wanted to ask from somebody who may be more expeirienced than myself.I've asked many different people about this and i got just as many different answers.
Question;On the clay liner construction part.When these are placed on top of one another,is there some sort of special sealer made for sealing any
leakage in between these sections?I've heard every possible answer from your standard everyday mortar mix to furnace cement to some stuff that comes in a caulking tube.I've even heard of stacking them dry-no sealer of any kind!!!!Would'nt that be equal to a cracked liner???I'm very cautious when it comes to safety and i dont want to do this untill i know for sure.
thanks,Digger2

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Digger, since the new UCC codes were adopted by Pa, everything is different. Here is an example, your new chimney must be 1" or more away from your sheathing. Old way, butt it against, new way, 1" or more clearance between chimney and any combustible materials. Do yourself a favor, consult a professional. And I mean a pro, not some yahoo with a pick-up truck and some tools in the back.
When I decided to build our new home, the first thing I did was spend a hundred bucks on the code book. You would be absolutely shocked at just how little that these people that call themselves builders actually know about the codes. Most of them know just as little about proper building techniques.

 

[EddieWalker]

You would be absolutely shocked at just how little that these people that call themselves builders actually know about the codes. Most of them know just as little about proper building techniques.

I would think that most builders only know the basics on code and depending on where they are building, what they are building and the degree of the inspection will dictate how close to code the build ends up. In my case, I have to check the codes all the time since they are always changing. Just because it was legal last year or even last month, doesn't mean it's still legal. Unfortunaletely, I rarely read up on the code books and rely on the inspectors to tell me what's new or changed.

Since I've never built a fireplace and chimney, I don't have a clue what the code is on them, but as a General Contractor, it's something that I may have to do sometime, and when that time comes, I'll do just like you suggested and buy the latest book.

If I was to build one either for myself or a client, I'd use triple wall stainless steel and avoid brick completely. There are just too many brick chimneys out there that are fire hazards waiting to happen.

Eddie

 

[escavader]

I agree with Eddie,about the stain less steel chimmney.We call em metal bestos up here.They are a bit pricey,but in my opinion will outlast a block chimmney.Iwent through this in 2000 when i needed a 24 foot chimmney up to camp.After pricing it out ,i opted for the metal bestos.Even has a cleanout on the bottom.There are a ton of accesorys and options you can get.It was all up in a day.NO need to worry about clay liners cracking etc.Mine is just as shiny new as the day we put it up.Im sold on them.
ALAN

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Actually Eddie, thanks for jarring my memory. I forgot about the stainless. Any good plumbing supply or stove shop here in the northeast sells what they call triple wall stainless. For parts and labor, it is about the same price to install block or stainless. Stainless is up in under a day, block, well, a week? We installed triple wall stainless at the hunt club about 10 years ago and it still looks as good as the day we installed it. In my opinion, I would never install another block chimney.

 

[Paddy]

Eddy,

All true. And if you have a chimy fire, the masonary one is craked inside. The SS types can handle quick heat changes. Another thing I liked about my SS type was how much better they draw! Heat rises and with the SS heating up quickly inside they draw real well. Lastly, they don't build up creasote near as fast but when they do, the round brush cleans it up with one pass.

Patrick T

 

[Highbeam]

You won't see much triple wall pipe anymore. Most brands have moved up to an insulated "Class A" chimney pipe that is SS inside and out with a nice shiney finish. I tore down a masonry fireplace and chimney and reinstalled a SS chimney with excellent success. Class A only needs 2 inches clearnace to combustibles.

Nothing drafts better than a completely vertical insulated SS chimney with adequate length. I would rather not have a stack of block next to my house in an earthquake either.

When stacking chimney tiles there is always that bit of extra mortar (or whatever that stuff is) that spooges out from between the tiles and ends up in the flue. Your brush with hang up on them so I know they are there. Don't stack them dry.

 

[Charlesaf3]

gonna disagree - a properly built masonry chimney is the way to go to my mind, for looks and heat. Granted most don't know how to build them these days, but I'll take feet of brick over thin gauge steel any day, for durability and heat mass

Not sure what y'all mean by block, up here only thing that goes in is brick, fire and regular.

There's a lot of physics that goes into a good chimney. Not something I'd ever do myself. To start, they should always be fully inside the house. Read up on Rumford for a lot more, or check out superior clay products

 

[Highbeam]

Properly built, a masonry chimney will easily cost 10 times the equivalent pipe chimney. There is a place for properly built masonry and it is an art, a craft, a trade, a skill. This is not low bid type work. Yes, ideally ANY chimney runs inside the home and not outside an outside wall where it wil be cold and poor to draft.

Most masonry chimneys will be built, at great cost, with clay tiles surrounded and supported by concrete block, and then faced with brick for looks. The brick is not a structural component anymore.

 

[Egon]

Digger, have you considered pulling in a stainless steel liner? That is what we did for our fireplace insert.

These liners may come in straight sections like stove pipe or be of a flexible continuous corrugated variety. This is the kind we have.

Using these liners it's much easier to size the diameter for proper draft.

 

[GaryM]

I watched them install one of those on "This Old House" a while back. Pretty slick. Another thing I've seen done, on TV that is, is a formed in place liner. They install a rubber bladder that's inflated to a certain diameter. Then a ceramic or concrete mix is poured. When the stuffs set up the bladder is deflated and pulled out. Cast in place chimney liners

 

[schmism]

for my upcomming house build it will be masonry not thinwall tin.

Perhaps its a case of "they dont build them like they used to" but ill be very surprised to see a SS linner make it 80+ years when thats the norm for old fashion masonry.

as for your question, i would go with refractory cement for the clay liner joints.

 

[Lasgambler]

I have used masonary and class A in the past several years building in Nevada and Western Arizona. 'Have not seen any Triple Wall in a long time.
'Not saying its not available, Just not required in my area for new construction. Maybe with a woodstove retro fit it would be required. As mentioned before, best to ck. with local building dept.

In new construction with a prefab fire box has always been double wall. We just frame and stucco a chimney.

On the other hand I have had clients with deep pockets that are Purist and would not have anything but true masonary fireplaces, true hardwood floors,(no Laminate) no floresent lights and nothing but Kohler fixtures. I guess it all boils down to "How much money do you have to spend?"

 

[escavader]

Heres a pic of the one in my camp .If the camp moves around from frost the chimmney moves with it.This pic has a 2007 date on it,so its 7 years old.Still as shiny as day 1.There is a metal shelf bracket holding it up,and in that shelf base is a cleanout you take out to clean.Ithink i made the right decision here,although i have a block chimmney here at home.If you have an indoor chimmney ,you get alot of heat from it after its warm.
ALAN

 

[digger2]

OK guys,thanks for the info.I've found the answer to my own question(i think).Beleive it or not there is a website about building chimneys on the net.According to them,the proper cement to use is a calcium aluminate based material availible at most brickyards,supposedly.Prob.refractory cement.(???)
Anyway,i actually thought about S/S chimney pipe,but where i live it would look as strange as a two legged cat .On the other hand,if i had a cabin or lived out in the sticks (which i do but not that far out ) S/S would be my choice hands down.I do beleive it has better draft propertys,and i can see it would be much easier to clean.Also the easy installation is a plus.
Anyway,i think i'm going to stick with the block chimney.Back in '97 it cost me about $350-$400 to build my own( about 20' high).I know prices have went up but i'll find that out for sure this coming week when i go to the brickyard.
I'll prob. be cursing myself in 20 years because something goes wrong with it but,maybe not.Also,i'm stuck on the traditional looks of a block chimney.Anyway,thanks for the info.................Digger2

 

[digger2]

Hey guys,
Well,its up and running.I tore down the old chimney and put up a new one.Cement chimney blocks with a S/S liner (rigid).Did it all myself.Just lit the wood burner up tonight for the first time this year and with a new chimney to boot.
A little pricey for 24 gauge sheetmetal,but its done now and working.
Actually,for the convenience of installation,it was worth it.I'm glad i went this route.It looks like my old chimney,but the S/S liner will prob. never go bad,
and it will be easier to clean and draft better too.And not a moment too soon....those floors are cold in the morning with no heat.
Thanks for the info..........Digger2

 

[Egon]

Good show!

Pictures?

 

[digger2]

Sorry,no pictures........I'm prob. one of the last people in the world who does'nt have a digital camera........yet.I'm waiting for the old Cannon 35mm
to break.Yeah,i'm that cheap.
Digger2

 

[Egon]

Probably much less hassle that way.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Sorry,no pictures........I'm prob. one of the last people in the world who does'nt have a digital camera........yet.I'm waiting for the old Cannon 35mm
to break.Yeah,i'm that cheap.
Digger2

He-he, mine is 23 years old and has been through a house fire and still works great. That camera may outlast you.