Bucket work with clutch /shuttle Vs hydro.

[Oaktree]

I have been using tractors for bucket work for 55 years. The first was a on Farmall H with a spring bucket To me, nothing compares to hydro. The people here disagreeing, probably don't have a lot of experience doing bucket work with a hydro. You sacrifice HP to be sure, but simply by more HP to match your PTO demands!

Other than a lawn tractor, I've never had an HST, but I can see its advantages for doing loader work, snow plowing, tilling, etc. Maybe not so much for bush hogging or other uses where you're using it at a constant speed/direction though.
Not planning on replacing my current tractor, but I'd definitely consider an HST one if I were to. Realistically, how much power do you lose with one vs a geared tractor?

 

[2manyrocks]

My Mx5200 has these two labels. I frequently need to shift between forward and reverse to cut ditch banks or overground hillsides like this one with 7-8' vegetation. I'd rather cut it backing up.

What's the proper procedure for me to follow assuming I'm going to stay in the same gear and same range? Stop, lower RPM, depress clutch, make the shift between F-R? Or does this transmission allow me to keep the RPM up while making the shift between F-R?

 

[Blue Mule]

Any clutch guys doing bucket work wish they had a hydro instead?

Yep, so I sold my stick and bought a hydro. Don't think I'd ever go back. The finesse you have with the hydro for bucket work as well as land grading work is just second to none.

 

[Venturabass]

I owed a shuttle shift tractor for 11 years while alongside owning a hydro garden tractor for 7 so I have experience operating both. I can also say at the time I drove a manual shift car simply because I preferred it. End of day I think it depends on the person. Some people seem to be perfectly content. Probably because Both will work fine. I’d definitely recommend shuttle vs a straight gear shift because then at least you have quicker direction changes and equivalent speed fwd/rev.

I know personally if I was doing a lot of back and forth for an extended period of time I’d feel frustrated by all the repeated movements. Also with the shuttle sometimes I’d want to travel fast to the pile and then slow my speed to feather into it. After working awhile this would always get frustrating.

Last year I sold my shuttle tractor and bought a new larger machine that was hydro. The convenience is amazing. Just last weekend I was doing a lot of grubbing work with a stump grapple in the woods with A LOT of repeated back and forth. I was reminded how much faster I was to be able to change direction and speed of travel instantaneously. It’s fantastic.

I don’t think I’d go back to a shuttle unless the work I needed to do included ground engagement as the hydro may not have the pulling power and you may stall the hydro.

 

[ptsg]

My Mx5200 has these two labels. I frequently need to shift between forward and reverse to cut ditch banks or overground hillsides like this one with 7-8' vegetation. I'd rather cut it backing up.

What's the proper procedure for me to follow assuming I'm going to stay in the same gear and same range? Stop, lower RPM, depress clutch, make the shift between F-R? Or does this transmission allow me to keep the RPM up while making the shift between F-R?
View attachment 820832View attachment 820837View attachment 820838

Forgot that Kubota cheaped out on some models and didn't put synchros on all gears, that's why they say you can only shift from 3rd to 4th on the move.

When I have to do the job you describe, I just use the foot throttle. I go backwards mowing, at the edge of the embankment, I take the foot of the throttle, press the clutch, move the shuttle lever forward, release the clutch, relocate the tractor for the next pass and then same process to reverse and go back mowing. I don't change gears, just change from backward to forward and vice versa.

This way, it should save your clutch a little bit more. Although, I've set the hand throttle before and leave it there all the time while changing directions. Since it's usually in low gears, there isn't much load that could hurt the clutch as long as you're not slipping it in high RPMs.

When I'm tilling the orchards, the trees are in a rectangular pattern and takes about 3 passes per row and I usually run 2nd or 3rd gear in Low range. I do one pass, at the end, lift the tiller, move the shuttle to reverse, range gear to Medium range and back for the next pass.

 

[chim]

All three of the tractors I've had that were equipped with loaders had HST's. I could see where a "clutchless" shuttle might work well though.

The single most annoying thing about a loader didn't have anything to do with the transmission. It was the joystick on the Montana we had where I worked. It would only allow boom up/down OR bucket curl/dump. It wouldn't let you do both functions at the same time.

Could have been worse though. Back in the 70's my in-laws had a MF with a loader that had two separate sticks.

 

[2manyrocks]

Forgot that Kubota cheaped out on some models and didn't put synchros on all gears, that's why they say you can only shift from 3rd to 4th on the move.

When I have to do the job you describe, I just use the foot throttle. I go backwards mowing, at the edge of the embankment, I take the foot of the throttle, press the clutch, move the shuttle lever forward, release the clutch, relocate the tractor for the next pass and then same process to reverse and go back mowing. I don't change gears, just change from backward to forward and vice versa.

This way, it should save your clutch a little bit more. Although, I've set the hand throttle before and leave it there all the time while changing directions. Since it's usually in low gears, there isn't much load that could hurt the clutch as long as you're not slipping it in high RPMs.

When I'm tilling the orchards, the trees are in a rectangular pattern and takes about 3 passes per row and I usually run 2nd or 3rd gear in Low range. I do one pass, at the end, lift the tiller, move the shuttle to reverse, range gear to Medium range and back for the next pass.

Mine seems like a transitional model because the later models apparently have more sophisticated transmissions. The H+ hydro seems like an even more sophisticated version of HST.

Anyone looking at a transmission these days might need to consider just what kind of HST or shuttle mechanism they are getting with a particular tractor.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Pallet forks --- the worst forklift ever made. Triple that if you have a cab!

How do you figure?

I use pallet forks quite often, mostly with the little L3800, but also with the M6040. The latter has a cab, but I don't understand what difference that makes.

If the load is much over 2,000 lbs. I use the actual forklift, but all it can do is lift more weight, straight up and down. With a tractor I can reach much farther, and it's much easier to move the forks laterally thanks to the increased swing.

Of course, it doesn't help that the little tractor has HST, the 6040 shuttle shift, and the forklift has a basic manual transmission, making it that much harder to make delicate maneuvers with.

And thanks to enough practice, I can lift and lower loads with the tractors while keeping the load just as level as with the forklift.

Pallet forks for the win in my case, and I prefer the cab on the tractor over the one on the forklift.

 

[bunchgrass]

Visibility from the cab to see the fork tips is the main issue. PITA to pickup a pallet w/o disembarking from the cab each time. I use pallets and the 250 gallon totes for a lot of things and get pretty frickin' tired of getting off and on. Was a warehouse forklift driver for a decade and there was no issue with knowing exactly where your forks were, speed and accuracy were much better than w/ my M8540. IMO -- the tractor forks are to a forklift what the bucket loader is to an actual wheel loader. Better than nothing but not "just as good."

EDIT -- I'd also add that the height reach of my FIL is nowhere near what a basic forklift can be.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Visibility from the cab to see the fork tips is the main issue. PITA to pickup a pallet w/o disembarking from the cab each time. I use pallets and the 250 gallon totes for a lot of things and get pretty frickin' tired of getting off and on.

EDIT -- I'd also add that the height reach of my FIL is nowhere near what a basic forklift can be.

I can't see the tips with any of them, but the 60-inchers make it a bit easier. Still moving 325-gallon totes somewhat frequently without getting off or out of the tractors.

Usually, if getting out to check, it's to see how close to whatever is behind it a new load is.

But now I'm curious to find out how high the tractor can lift compared to the 3-stage Cascade on the Unimog. I don't think the difference is big. And if more height is needed, I use the crane on the back of the Unimog instead.