Broke the new Deere

[Atchuuu]

Causes and Fixes of Drivetrain Windup

Good to know. Never knew that you shouldn't drive on pavement in 4x4 mode. Makes me wonder though, is there really enough slippage on grass that it doesn't present a problem in 4x mode? I have driven on grass/dirt on a number of occasions in 4x4 mode because I forgot to go back to 2x4

 

[Agvg]

Good to know. Never knew that you shouldn't drive on pavement in 4x4 mode. Makes me wonder though, is there really enough slippage on grass that it doesn't present a problem in 4x mode? I have driven on grass/dirt on a number of occasions in 4x4 mode because I forgot to go back to 2x4

No problem, driving on pavement are no problem but it will give more wear on the 4WD system.

 

[CobyRupert]

No problem, driving on pavement are no problem but it will give more wear on the 4WD system.

When the front (x gear ratio) and rear tire circumferences aren't perfectly matched something has to slip when the tractor rolls.

The wear is because drive line is getting torqued.
The torque required to slip big rubber tires on pavement.
Seems this would wear the tires significantly too.

(IMHO) If the tractor is heavy, the tire's contact area is large, or the drive line is weak, or a combination of how these factors relate to each other, there definitely could be a problem.

 

[cdaigle430]

If he was not in 4x4, why would the shaft fail?

Your looking at the wrong failure point, the shaft failure looks like it was a result of something else in the drivline locking up. The shaft is the weakest link.....he heard the hydro getting louder just before the pop.

 

[Agvg]

When the front (x gear ratio) and rear tire circumferences aren't perfectly matched something has to slip when the tractor rolls.

The wear is because drive line is getting torqued.
The torque required to slip big rubber tires on pavement.
Seems this would wear the tires significantly too.

(IMHO) If the tractor is heavy, the tire's contact area is large, or the drive line is weak, or a combination of how these factors relate to each other, there definitely could be a problem.

If your drive train is in good health this is not a problem, not saying it is a good practice but shouldn't wreck your machine.

Yes you will have a lot more front tire wear, most tractors the front wheels pulls a little faster than the rear from factory.

 

[searcyfarms]

exactly why i dont use 4x4 unless im going to enter something questionable for traction or im trying to prevent from making ruts and tearing up my yard, i only had it in 4wd a couple times this winter, not to mention anyting is harder to steer in 4x4 and slides front end and doesnt turn as well which is not conducive to a nice yard - you will know instantly if you have any vehicle in 4wd on pavement especially if you turn then throw a loader on the front end mercy there will be no question you forgot something - you will notice the same on dry ground/dirt just not as pronounced, mud/snow you wont notice it much if at all

and yes the fronts pull faster on my 2038r deere and my 2210 did the same - very easy to notice in snow, you will tear the ground up in mud/dirt but there is a price for not getting stuck hopefully

deere was just here and picked it up about 30 mins ago - i personally think something in the hydro had to have caused it with the whining noise and once the front pinion shaft popped or when it threw the hydro from High to Neutral it relieved the pressure from whatever was stuck/engaged - things went back to normal and no more bind

I just worry about it happening again, hopefully they can reproduce it

 

[Industrial Toys]

The front and rear are never matched! The front always goes a bit faster.

 

[CobyRupert]

I think it somehow got into 4wd. When it bound so much that the shaft or universal popped, that shock kicked it into neutral.
I’m not a mechanic and I didn’t sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[rScotty]

other notes..........the MMM has never been off and its the quickconnect that you drive on and it locks into position and there is not really a way i can see the MMM pto shaft would be able to make contact with the Front drive shaft - when i got it the MMM gear box was VERY noisy and deere agreed and replaced it right out the gate. They said they had a couple like that and one also self destructed. The replacement MMM gear box has been normal noise for a gear box.

And you are correct - the front drive shaft rotates at all times, the drive to it is provided by coupling inside the transmission when you engage the 4x4 lever. I have another conversation in here regarding my reviews of the 2038R and i complained months ago that it was stiff and hard to manipulate the lever, its a pull up, push down type T handle that comes up from the floor board/operation station.

I bet they dont come up with much of anything. I am guessing something bound up and until it breaks this may happen again. The mystery to me is the hydraulic whine that makes me lean to something in the hydro/pump - i will be curious to see if the 4x4 handle is easier to engage and disengage once repaired. Also it does look like there is a little damage to the splines/shaft that comes out of the trannie not sure if it will be repairable by filing out the grooves or if its damaged too much.

They come to pick it up in the morning

That is a lot of failures on a new machine. Does your state have a "lemon law"? Are you going to keep the machine? If it were mine, I'd seriously consider just returning it to the dealer and buying a different make or model.
rScotty

 

[searcyfarms]

i am not concerned about any lemons, gear box noises these days are common in my world, everyone gets a bad batch of something now and then, cars/motorcycles/computers/toasters, stiff levers/gears i can work through that with the dealer, the trannie thing...........not sure what this will turn into but maybe they will find something in this process and it will all get taken care of. I have faith and try not to get too spun up anymore, its hard on the blood pressure.

I have lived through the torment of a 6.0 powerstroke and after i got it bulletproofed, its been terrific. Many curse them but once you fix them, they will go forever.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

i am not concerned about any lemons, gear box noises these days are common in my world, everyone gets a bad batch of something now and then, cars/motorcycles/computers/toasters, stiff levers/gears i can work through that with the dealer, the trannie thing...........not sure what this will turn into but maybe they will find something in this process and it will all get taken care of. I have faith and try not to get too spun up anymore, its hard on the blood pressure.

I have lived through the torment of a 6.0 powerstroke and after i got it bulletproofed, its been terrific. Many curse them but once you fix them, they will go forever.

I love that line!! lol lol

SR

 

[rScotty]

i am not concerned about any lemons, gear box noises these days are common in my world, everyone gets a bad batch of something now and then, cars/motorcycles/computers/toasters, stiff levers/gears i can work through that with the dealer, the trannie thing...........not sure what this will turn into but maybe they will find something in this process and it will all get taken care of. I have faith and try not to get too spun up anymore, its hard on the blood pressure.

I have lived through the torment of a 6.0 powerstroke and after i got it bulletproofed, its been terrific. Many curse them but once you fix them, they will go forever.

I agree with all that - except the part about gear box noises being common. There I definitely don't agree. That side of mechanical devices was worked out maybe half a century ago. From my perspective, noisy gearboxes today are the result of not being manufactured to modern designs & tolerances.

Regardless, I don't tend to get torqued up by mechanical problems myself. And I'm not suggesting that what is right for me is right for all.

So let me ask it this way..... Is there some point at which the dealer should step up to the plate and say lets start over with a different machine?
And do us old timers as cusomers and dealers have any obligation to use whatever influence we have to encourage the manufacturers maintain a level of quality?
I don't know the answer for others, but for myself I do seem to feel that something like that is important. If for no other reason than to help protect the increasingly non-mechanical consumers.

After all, we aren't talking really big money here. And we aren't talking about either you or the dealer taking a loss financially. It may not bother you to be the one to deal with it, but the next guy up to the plate may be your less capable neighbor.

So yes, at some point I do see making it right as the dealer's obligation. In fact, to me that seems reasonable that he would be the one to insist that we start over again with a different machine.

Hey, sorry about that 6.0. and glad it's going well now. We're still using the 2002 7.3. It's not been perfect either.... , but its a lot better than the first 7.3 liter Ford that we bought the year they came out. That one self-destructed at 50K. Way out of warranty, but Ford replaced the engine with a new one. We didn't even have to ask; they offered to do it. Said it was their fault. Some sort of air-cleaner problem if I remember right.
rScotty

 

[Agvg]

I think it somehow got into 4wd. When it bound so much that the shaft or universal popped, that shock kicked it into neutral.
I’m not a mechanic and I didn’t sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Why should it self destruct if the 4 WD was engaged?

 

[searcyfarms]

when it stopped so quickly - another reason why i think it was internal hydraulic issues there was no grinding, no klunking and it didnt slide the tires either so it wasn't like something locking up. the engine did sound a little loaded but not heavily. I checked the specs and it says top speed of like 16. something mph so that is plenty fast enough to slide tires but it didnt.

I agree we need to maintain a high quality of things lets hope they find something substantial. I think next time i will pop that baby into neutral and just coast down the hill so i dont have flashbacks and PTSD.

 

[CobyRupert]

Why should it self destruct if the 4 WD was engaged?

My "W.A.G.*" theory: Because he was traveling at road speed on pavement.
That a combination of tractor weight contributing to the friction (traction) of tires on pavement (against slipping), and (under) size of drive shaft caused maximum binding.

Conversely: If it wasn't in 4WD, why would the drive shaft bust if there's no torque in it? That is, if it's just freely spinning around by being turned by the front tires?
One would expect that even a bad universal will just clatter and wobble as long as you don't put a load on it. :2cents:

I'm guessing the "stop quick" experienced was when the loose drive shaft, broken at the tranny end, was spinning/flopping around, being driven by the front wheels, and got jammed. OP would of felt a maximum braking effect by the front tires, until the shaft at the front axle snapped dropping the rest of the drive shaft. Then everything would be free to turn and he could use it as a 2WD tractor. Which he did. Also, his tranny worked normal afterwards.


(*: W.A.G.: Wild *** Guess.)

 

[Zebrafive]

Agree don't get worked up until the dealer has fair chance to make things right.

 

[USAFpj]

Searcy- probably not telling you anything you don't already know, but ensure that you get a thorough and written diagnosis for your records. If you keep the tractor, this may come back as handy in a decade if it happens again, and you've forgotten the details of the original ailment.

Deere may not be too quick to admit fault, so be prepared for that as well.

 

[rScotty]

Searcy- probably not telling you anything you don't already know, but ensure that you get a thorough and written diagnosis for your records. If you keep the tractor, this may come back as handy in a decade if it happens again, and you've forgotten the details of the original ailment.

Deere may not be too quick to admit fault, so be prepared for that as well.

So far it doesn't seem like it is the dealer's fault in any way ; he didn't make the machine, only sold it.
I guess he could make this into some sort of a problem, but it would have to be a bit of effort on his part.

 

[searcyfarms]

Searcy- probably not telling you anything you don't already know, but ensure that you get a thorough and written diagnosis for your records. If you keep the tractor, this may come back as handy in a decade if it happens again, and you've forgotten the details of the original ailment.

Deere may not be too quick to admit fault, so be prepared for that as well.

Thanks and i will do that, the dealer has been good to me so I dont anticipate any issues but if this thing turns out intermittent and they cant find anything, I will be riding with butt pucker syndrome waiting for it to do it again. :thumbdown:

 

[Diggin It]

My "W.A.G.*" theory:

Conversely: If it wasn't in 4WD, why would the drive shaft bust if there's no torque in it? That is, if it's just freely spinning around by being turned by the front tires?
One would expect that even a bad universal will just clatter and wobble as long as you don't put a load on it. :2cents:

I'm guessing the "stop quick" experienced was when the loose drive shaft, broken at the tranny end, was spinning/flopping around, being driven by the front wheels, and got jammed. OP would of felt a maximum braking effect by the front tires, until the shaft at the front axle snapped dropping the rest of the drive shaft. Then everything would be free to turn and he could use it as a 2WD tractor. Which he did. Also, his tranny worked normal afterwards.


(*: W.A.G.: Wild *** Guess.)

Unless as I said in my "W.A.G.*" theory above, the shaft was bad from the factory, bad steel, metal fatigued somehow in manufacturing and the rotation simply spun it silly.

If it was something inside the transaxle, why would it continue to function seemingly normal afterwards? OK, maybe just part of the innards hurled itself into the great transaxle beyond, but will JD come to that conclusion?