Boxblade Usefulness Survey

[chuckp]

Bird:
I have one of these scoops, but mine is a lot older./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Dearborn Implement Co. made this one in 1947. It is not reversible (only scoops forward), but is very easy to use and will move about a quarter of a yard of dirt at a time. This was the only way to move dirt back in the old days before the FEL. I have seen these scoops used to dig a Stock Tank (Pool) in about two to three days./w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

Chuck

 

[Bird]

Yeah, Chuck, if I didn't have a front end loader, I'd definitely have to have one of those scoops. In fact, I could use one now at times to move a bucketful of dirt in it and the front end loader at the same time. And as for digging a stock pond; I've seen pictures of the construction of Lake Murray (State Park) in Oklahoma and White Rock Lake in Dallas when they were using similar scoops and a team of mules. That was some hard working folks in those days./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird

 

[TomG]

I used the scraper for most of the work on a 1.5' deep excavation for a raised leeching pit this summer. I just dozed when going backwards and picked up a box to drag out of the excavation when going forward. Raising the 3ph does a pretty good job of getting dirt out of the excavation.

I Don't know how deep I could have gone over the 12' length of the pit, but for what I did, the scraper seemed better than the loader. The depth limit is probably the need to maintain a ramp for getting back out of the hole, and around here, the need to shore the walls of a hole more than 4' deep or so.

The loader started being difficult to use when the pit got to the point where you'd start a dig with both front and rear wheels out of the pit, push forward, and then the front wheels drop into the pit. At one point with a full bucket, the front wheels ended up turned full to the lock and couldn't be straightened. I was stuck in the pit until I dropped the dirt and used the bucket to lift the front wheels so I could straighten them out.

However, no problems doing the work with the scraper. The side plates cut good side walls for the pit. There were steep ramps at both ends of the pit that I did use the loader to remove.

 

[glennmac]

Was at my dealer today talking about my options for snow removal. I asked him again about boxblades, whether he had ever stocked them. He said he used to years back, but he hardly ever sold any, so he just stopped. I asked him why he thought they were not in demand in CT. He made some of the points already made here about the absence of sandy soil and the presence of boulders. In commenting on the the delicateness of boxblade operation, he made two other points. Even when the ground is not bouldery, but just having the normal high quota of smaller rocks, the rocks would tend to pile and mound up in front of the blade interfering with the operation. He also commented that the box works much better on flat ground. With all our hills and swales and gullies and ridges, the box just keeps going out of proper tilt and trim to work effectively.

Never having used one myself, I'm not sure I explained it as well as he did to me.

Glenn

 

[JerryG]

I have followed this thread since its inception. I also need to say that I live in a very hilly area (the Ozarks in NW AR). The land here is far from level and WHAT is sand. My land has about 18” of topsoil(?), then it is mostly red clay with layers of rock. Most of the rocks (in the topsoil and in the clay) are not that large; they are in the 1” to 6” range. Now, that all of that is said, I have a box blade and a good rear blade, I prefer to use the rear blade because of the many and varied positions that it can be adjusted to. The times that I use the box are mostly when the rear blade won’t cut it. By this I mean that, if the ground is too hard, too rocky or I need to move a quite a bit of dirt without spreading it out. I couldn’t do without it. When I first purchased the box, I thought that I had made a mistake. Then the more I used it the more that I saw that I needed it. And Yes I know that they are for grading, smoothing and leveling. I also use it for those things.
JerryG

 

[glennmac]

Jerry, if you put end caps on your rear blade, could it move soil without spreading it, like a box?

Glenn

 

[JerryG]

Glenn,
Your right. BUT, if the blade just bounces over the ground because it is hard and because the rocks won't come lose, you have to get more aggressive. As in rippers..to break it up so you can move it.
JerryG

 

[glennmac]

So, if you need to break up ground and then move it, the boxblade allows you to conveniently do both with one implement. That's where the box seems to shine from the reports here.

I guess where the box loses its value is (1) where the ground does not need to be scarified before it is moved, or (2) where the ground is too rocky or hard to be scarified by a boxblade. In situation (1), a straight blade can be used, perhaps with end caps. In situation (2), some super agressive implement is necessary to bust up the ground, and then after it is busted up it can be moved with a straight blade. So if you have land that is primarily situation (1) and/or (2), plus if you are in the snowbelt and need a snow removal implement, that is when a straight blade looks more appealing than a boxblade. Perhaps this is the summary explanation for the apparent lack of demand for boxblades in the NE.

Glenn

 

[JerryG]

Glenn,
I think you have pretty well summed up what I use my box for. I would agree with what you have said on all points except maybe that they may have just not caught on in the NE. Up until about three or four years ago you would have been hard pressed to find one in this area. Now, about half of the dealers are carrying them.
JerryG

 

[TomG]

Somebody, I think on CTB, said that they thought anything a scraper could do, a blade with end plates can do, and a blade can do other things as well. I think that's probably true, especially since extra weight can be put on top of a blade to help it cut. However, I think I figured out that is blade is best when it's a real good blade with all the adjustments, and preferably hydraulic adjustments. I'd like such a jewel, but they're a lot more expensive that a decent scraper, so I bought a decent scraper instead.

Couple of comments: I believe that some people would think that it's wonderful if rocks bunched up on the front of the scraper blade. I saw something called a 'rock picker.' It looked real good, but also real pricey.

I suspect that rocks give any ground engaging implement problems, not just scrapers. Hills also are problems for all ground engaging implements. I think you can either cure them by grading, or live with them and become an artist at riding the 3ph control. I'm a little short on cures and art myself.

I heard of an unusual use for a scraper. Somebody used one to help with snow removal in a parking lot. The scraper could get out snow from between parked cars without pushing it underneath the cars. I don't suppose anybody here has a parking lot, but it is an interesting idea.

 

[glennmac]

On some backblades, Landpride being one, you can also mount an adjustable scarifier in front of the blade. You can also add a gaugewheel (even hydraulic) behind the better blades. This combo would give scarifying, blade scraping, and dirt pulling capability like a boxblade--all with angling, tilt, offset, and gaugewheel capability that boxblades do not have, plus superior snow removal ability. And for all that, you never have to adjust your top link! (Happy toplinking, all you boxbladers.)

Another approach is a good rake. You can add a flipdown blade with endcaps, dual gauge wheels and, with Landpride, the scarifier. You would lose the tilt and offset feature of the straight blade, however -- except for Landpride, again, which lets you mount the rake on the tiltable blade frame.

York also has a scarifier for their rakes. Woods does not seem to have scarifiers for their rakes or blades.

Glenn

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by glennmac on 10/15/00 09:00 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[gordon]

Glenn you bring up some very good points in your post. I didn't realize that Landpride made a scarifier that would mount onto the front of the blade. I'm going to look into the price of one, but Landpride stuff is very pricey when new. But that sure would be a nice addition to my rearblade!! I think that once I find out the price my wallet won't allow it, but it never hurts to ask.

Now lets get down to the real world. Even with the blade set up you will find that you still will be adjusting the top link or the gauge wheel ratchet arm or both. The reason I say this is the aggressiveness of the cut and adjusting it to more or less. I have the endplates and gauge wheel for my series 35 blade and it's great for somethings but my box is great for other tasks.

If I just had the rearblade setup and then bought the box would I be happy with the box---you bet. There are things that they both excell at and some of them entertwine but they both have their strong and weak points so to speak.

As for the flip down blade on the rake I've got a series 15 rake, gauge wheels, flip down blade and the blade is light duty to say the least. I bent mine up in no time. Not the fault of the product the fault of the operator. A stump got the better of it. Tractor disc brakes at it's best. Live goes on.
Gordon

 

[jyoutz]

A rear straight blade, which I tilted as needed.

 

[jyoutz]

No, I certainly don't think that a scoop can do more than a FEL. Really what they are good for is to just move material-not spread. What I have to do is to move material and dump in piles, then spread with a rear blade.

 

[jyoutz]

Harv, personally I would not buy a scoop if I had a FEL. They really are just a cheap tool to move material for us poor boys without a FEL. In regards to scooping dirt out of the ditch-I was using a rear grader blade, not a box blade.

 

[bsauter]

I have a King Kutter rear scoop that I have not used in a long time if anyone on this board is interested. They are great if you don't have a FEL. Since I do have a FEL I just don't need mine and was going to put it on EBay. Email me and I can send a picture and info. I used it on my old B2150 before I got a loader for it.

Brad, Kubota L3010HST, loader, R4 tires
Pictures at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=179207&a=9183978

 

[Anonymous Poster]

With over 100,000 posts... we have loads of useful information no matter when it was discussed... it can be mind-boggling to try to digest all this...

But maybe a little bit at a time.../w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Thought, I'd resurrect this thread and if memory serves me correctly, Harv has a hinged box blade... maybe that's why he wanted to go "backwards" versus forward for more control of leveling... (using Harv's term of "bulldozing")

If Harv "fixed" his hinged back either via being welded or using a couple bolts, I think it would better serve Harv's purposes... both forward and backwards...

Also from the different talk, it seems no one actually knows when you would use a hinged versus stationary back. This excerpt is from a LandPride "Hinged" Box blade manual as to the purpose of the hinged back...

Rear Blade Setting
The rear gate of the box scraper is hinged; when left unbolted
it will allow for more penetration of the front cutting
blade or; when bolted (with 1/2” x 1 1/2” long bolt supplied
by customer) at both ends, front and blade can be used for
finishing or fine grading...

It would appear, mostly higher drawbar horsepower tractors are used in the majority of cases with a hinged box blade… as the more aggressive you get with penetration… the more horses you would need to complete the task at hand…

 

[MChalkley]

I haven't spent a whole lot of time examining box blades, but Harv's mention that his hinged back box blade did not have the ability to be fixed in place was the first I'd ever heard of one like that. I've seen hinged rear blades, but they always included a provision for locking them. I think if I had one like Harv's, I'd have to figure out some way to lock it down. I can think of times it would be handy to have the hinged blade, but, most of the time, I think I'd want it rigid.

 

[Harv]

Okay, Mark & John -

We have to pin this down once and for all, so I sent an email to Howse through their website to see if they can shed some light on the non-lockable rear hinged blade on <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/5-36333-BoxBlade.jpg>my box scraper</A>. Their "Ordering Information" page wasn't working for me, so I also asked about getting an owner's manual for the thing.

I already have the sinking feeling that they won't have a good answer, either. Then what do I do?

 

[TresCrows]

My Kubota boxblade has a swinging rear blades that does not have a lock.
To the other, bah humbug, I'll be keeping my boxblade, next to the FEL and MMM I cannot imagine not having it. It works wonders in clay, sand, rocks and whathaveyou. It pushes and levels gravel and stone and is indespensible.
J