Boxblade Usefulness Survey

/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey
  • Thread Starter
#21  
Von, I think paving my driveway would be nice, but part of my negotiations with the Secretary of War when I spent all this money was that I was going to fix the driveway with the new tractor. I think if it's a blacktopping project, I just watch and spend a lot of money.

Bob, I had thought of asphalt grinding in the sense of buying the reground asphalt. People around here do buy it and use it for a base. I may be able to spread and backdrag it with the loader. When the weather gets hot, the stuff starts to melt and stick together again.

Bird, my hypothesis about boxblades is that they are a clever combination of several functions that, however, work best in two types of soil conditions. First, in soft, sandy spreadable stuff that "flows" nicely, as in the sedimentary alluvial soil of the south and midwest (places that were once under an ancient ocean). Second, in dry hardcrusted stuff that also flows nice once it is broken up with scarifiers (as in the hot, dry west). In a lot of the NE, the really rocky areas like my driveway cannot be busted by a boxblade or, as you say, with any blade. You need something much bigger or something powered. The dealer who used the bounce along statement pointed at his house, which is right next to his dealership. He said his yard would not have responded to a boxblade or a york rake (or a backblade), and he showed me what he used -- something he called a cultivator. It had giant scarifiers.

So once you eliminate the scarifier capability of the box as being useful, you have to ask yourself whether its spreading and leveling features make it worth buying. Well, the nonrocky soil here -- or the soil that has had the rocks removed -- is largely moist and vegetated and even clumpy-sticky. I don't know how well it would "flow" in a box. So, with the scarifying function of the box useless on the really rocky stuff, and the flowing-spreading function not fully available because of the soil characteristics, there doesn't seem to be any advantage of the box versus the backblade. (Nate, you can get box end caps for a backblade.) Plus, as Derek said, when you add in the superiority of the backblade for ditching, terracing and snow removal, a boxblade does not stand out as a high priority implement for the average buyer.

We have reports on this and other recent threads that dealers in CT, MA, NH and VT do not recommend boxblades. If experienced tractorpeople in these areas were demanding boxblades, I assume dealers would supply them. That's why I was seeking reports from other areas of the country.

Well, that's just me talking. But, for what it's worth, that was part of my buying decision process.
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #22  
Hey, I'm still learning like everyone else. Different equipment for different uses in different conditions and different locations./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #23  
When I bought my tractor I also bought a cheap box blade that weighed 400-500#. It really didn't do much and would bounce quite a bit and float on top of the ground when I tried to rip with it. I found a good used Gannon boxblade that weighs 880# and added a hydraulic top link and the difference was just amazing. I tore down a pond dam that was about 150' long by 8' high in about 13 hours by ripping and dragging the dirt with the box blade, If there were rocks the size of Rhode Island here I have no doubt that the box blade would bounce over them but with areas of sandy loam and clay I can work the soil here about anywhere with the boxblade. I have also used it to back into stumps and push them over or tie a chain on it and use it to pull things. It came with a ball welded on the top of it and I have used it to pull a light trailer I have. I don't know anybody around here with a tractor that doesn't have a box blade. I totally agree that it does depend on your soil whether it will work or not. I have tilted it with the lower lift arm adjustment and built flat areas on the side of a hill to set retaining walls. This week I have been using it to drag dirt over places where my sprinkler system settled and left ruts and with it tilted all the way backward it would scrape the dirt completely off the grass without tearing it up and leave only dirt in the settled area. I got a whole lot better using it once I got the hydraulic top link, though. The only time I take it off my tractor is if I am mowing or using a rototiller. It would be a real hard decision between a box blade and FEL if I could only have one implement. Snow removal is not a problem. We've had 1 snow in three years and it melted in about a day.
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #24  
Harv
If what you are talking about is the type of scoop that fits on the three point hook up, I've seen them. They seem to be mainly used by tractor people who don't have a FEL. Evidently, some skill of operation is also required, because I've seen some people make a real mess with them. For the small tractors most of us have here, the only other thing I've seen is a thing that looked like an overgrown buster. In ground that has big rocks, it probably wouldn't be any good either. If you are making progress with your box blade, keep at it.
ErnieB
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #25  
Harv, I just finished up a rather long ditch in hard clay ground (but not too many rocks), and after trial and error this is what I came up with. First I used my middlebuster plow to go over and over the ditch path to loosen the soil. Then I used a rear scraper blade angled down and tilted to cut the ditch. In places where I couldn't get down any deeper, I leveled and straightened the blade and then backed up parallel to the ditch and lowered the blade to the bottom. Then I would drag the dirt up and out, raising the 3 pt as I came out. Lots of work, but then the ground was really compacted (horse corral) where I was doing this. The ditch turned out really good.
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #26  
I have a rear scoop, and no I don't have a loader. They are extremely useful for lifting and carrying things, particularly loose dirt. BUT, I have found it to be rather worthless for cutting with. It's hard to back up with enough force to take a big bite out of hard ground. I don't understand the reference to them doing bad jobs, unless it was in regard to cutting. For moving dirt, nothing could be simpler-scoop-lift-dump.
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #27  
Jim -

The rear scoop sounds interesting. Any idea where there's a picture of such a thing online? May I ask how much you paid?

Also -- interesting technique with the box blade. It never occurred to me that it could be lowered deep enough to scoop dirt out of the ditch. I'm gonna give that a try in a few hours.

As Gordon said in the "Culvert Project" thread, TractorByNet is the best manual in the world.

Thanks for the tip. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

HarvSig.gif
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #28  
Jyoutz
If you have a scoop, then you are far more qualified to comment on it than I am. But to give you an example, I saw a fella use one to spread a pile of topsoil. He had dirt scattered everywhere. Where he was tring to spread it looked like the surface of the moon, and the place where the pile had been looked worse. In short, a mess. I don't know the how or why, it's just what I've seen. If these scoops can do something more than a FEL can do, I haven't seen it. Maybe someone else has, and can explain it.
ErnieB
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #29  
Anderson;
You talked abouted leveling a parking lot. I assume the rock is spread across the lot and you are trying to level the crushed rock. What usd to relevel and smooth out the cruched rock on my driveway and parking area is a Fuerst Harrow, set with the teeth pointed forward. A few passes and the area is level and smooth. works great and is fast. The Harrow is a field drag, just like the big boys have only it is four foot wide, seven foot long.
Dan
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey
  • Thread Starter
#30  
jyoutz, in digging your ditch, could you clarify whether you used a boxblade or a rear straight blade.
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #31  
Somewhere along the line I think I figured out that 'grading' means something pretty specific, and not just filling pot holes and smoothing things out. My grasp of grading right now is that is means a width of ground between two points going in a straight line at a given angle.

There are a lot of construction things that require specific grades. Without grading, buildings aren't plumb, yards and drives don't drain, basements fill with water, and septic systems don't pass inspection.

To do adequate grading on any scale, you need equipment. A box scraper isn't a grader, or a dozer, but you can get the job done with some patients. Grading is much more of an aggravation with any other type of moderately priced implement.

I've been doing some grading, and the scraper gets quite a bit of work. I might even get the hang of it some day.
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #33  
Thanks for the "scoop", Bird. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Looks simple 'nough, but now I'm puzzling over the "trip lever dump mechanism". Do you have to get out of the seat to dump it?

HarvSig.gif
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #34  
That might have been my first attempt at landscaping you saw. I started with a dirt scoop and a subsoiler and found out that a dirt scoop is no way to produce a smooth surface, and it isn't a very efficient way to move dirt either. I bought a boxblade and it is much much better for both of these jobs.

I don't have a FEL, but one job the dirt scoop does really well is move rocks. You can easily scoop up a 2' x 3' x 1' rock and move it wherever you need it. You can try bigger rocks too, but then the rock stays on the ground while the front wheels go up. It would be a lot easier to pick up a decent load of wood chips (that I get from utility companies) with a FEL, but the scoop gets the job done eventually. I think moving sand would be total frustration - the scoop doesn't easily angle back far enough to keep a good load from spilling.
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #35  
Harv, I don't think that's the best picture in the world, but it's the only one I know of on the Internet. In their 1997 catalog, that scoop was priced at $199. I guess I better let someone who has one describe the dump mechanism. I've seen some that you could either reach back to the dump lever that was bolted on the top, or run a rope from the lever to your ROPS so it was handy to pull. But the only similar scoop I've used personally was the horse drawn variety dad had nearly 50 years ago.

Bird
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #36  
I'm in the NE and have found a boxblade useful for tasks it was designed to do. Yes the soil has some pretty big rocks in it but as previously stated NO implement is going to touch them except a backhoe and removal ($6000 vs $350, not much of a comparison) I wouldn't have one without scarifiers but it's a very useful tool for grading/spreading BECAUSE you can take shallow bites and decide how deep to go by how many times you pass over the same spot. (I regraded my barn so the water would flow around and not through the barn. This entailed taking out about a foot or dirt by 7ft wide by 150 foot long to make a swale. Took some time but it was the right tool for the job IF I wanted to do it with a tractor. A Dozer was the optimal tool but I don't have one of those. Weight is critical though, I have about 350# of ADDED weight on the blade which lets it cut much better. The trick to cutting deep is 1. go slow, 2. have the angle at its most aggressive, and 3. dump the dirt as soon as the box fills. (As the box fills the downpressure reduces as does the cutting effectiveness)
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #37  
I've used a back 3pt scoop a few times that my neighbor owns. By no means is it anything close to a replacement for a FEL. The trip lever on top is usually operated by attaching a rope to the lever and keeping the other end somewhere near the operator so you can pull and release your load. They're OK for small jobs, and do real well moving wood chips from a pile to gardens, etc. I've moved gravel a few times to fill holes in the driveway, but have never tried to grade with it. Not a tool I'd spend much on....maybe a few dollars at an auction.

Bob Pence
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #38  
Box blades are sort of like mud+snow tires. They are not the best in mud or snow but will get the job done. Or like the difference between a small and large tractor. It takes longer but you can get it done with a small tractor. For those of us that cannot have a special implement for each purpose a box blade will eventually get the job done.
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #39  
Harv,
S&G equipment oh H49 in El Dorado has them, about $225 or $250. They are handy, but no as handy as a Loader. HOWEVER, compare $250 to $3000+ for a loader. It is a very viable option

I had one. You tie a short rope to the trip lever. Make the rope long enought to reach to you seat. Then you just reach over and pull the rope to dump the thing.

Mine's on a old 8N now. Works great for $225.

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif
 
/ Boxblade Usefulness Survey #40  
I think the box blade with rippers is a good compromise.

I have a roll-over scraper. It works great to pull things forward. It works greeat to scarcify. But, not both at the same time. It works GREAT as a bull dozer when in the reverse postion. It als works AWESOME if it is in the reverse position, but you are pulling forward, in order to smooth things out.

Using a box scraper, I found it scraped ok, and scarcified ok. But, it was not like doing the jobs independantly with the roll-over box.

I have not used a plain blade. But, It makes me think it would be a lot like using the roll-over scraper, just without scarcifiers.

The idea I do like for driveway maint is a belly scraper. I'm thinking about getting one for my Farmall. It seems to me you could keep the whole thing "leveler" then. A 3pt scraper is way out back. Every time you front end raises just a little over a bump, that scraper hanging waaaay out there will want to drop considerabley.

My overall thought is that for a complete job, you really want one of each scraper/scarcifier setup; each having it's own purpose in the overall picture.

Given the $$$ for these things, it appears the box scraper with scarcifiers is the best overall compromise.

Of course, this is all IMHO /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

B

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif
 
 
 
Top