Box Scraper Box scraper for hard pack dirt/gravel road

[airbiscuit]

Here's a vid of a LPGS in action...

 

[olPete]

Thanks for all your help, guys. Much appreciate your pictures and advice, i tried searching nz trading site for 'box blade' and all you get are boxes of blades! Got a cheap grader blade though and got the crown back, now time to get welding. Hopefully the OP learned as much as I did about roading DIY.

 

[Gordon Gould]

I have quite a lot of road to maintain. Up here we have frost that goes down 4 feet, sometimes five feet. So in the spring the entire ground gets saturated with water. It has no where to go with all the frost below. So spring time roads get holes and ruts. Just can't be avoided. I divide maintenance into two general types; contour maintenance and surface maintenance. Contour maintenance is the main water control features of the road, things like setting the crown, making a flat pitch, constructing a wide base dip, or repairing a wash out. I use a rear blade for this work. Many prefer a box blade. Surface maintenance is just what it says - keeping a smooth surface that doesn't collect or pool water and is pleasant to drive on. A land plane excels at this job. But you can do it with a rear blade or box blade too, It just takes more skill and is much slower. A land plane will not remove the crown from a road unless you want it to or it is to wide for the road. It should be less than 1/2 the width of the road. Mine is 5' wide and my roads average about 12' with some wider sections. Once the surface is smooth it should be packed. I use a one ton, a p/u or car will work also. This is so you can see what you really have. Some areas may compress more than others when packed. Places where the lose material is deeper like holes and ruts. After it is packed if there are any surface imperfections it should be regraded and repacked until it is right if you expect it to be a long lasting job. If you just smooth and don't pack then as the traffic packs it for you all the holes and ruts may just reform which is a common problem.

Setting contour with rear blade.



Then perfecting surface with land plane



Packing



gg

 

[ovrszd]

I have quite a lot of road to maintain. Up here we have frost that goes down 4 feet, sometimes five feet. So in the spring the entire ground gets saturated with water. It has no where to go with all the frost below. So spring time roads get holes and ruts. Just can't be avoided. I divide maintenance into two general types; contour maintenance and surface maintenance. Contour maintenance is the main water control features of the road, things like setting the crown, making a flat pitch, constructing a wide base dip, or repairing a wash out. I use a rear blade for this work. Many prefer a box blade. Surface maintenance is just what it says - keeping a smooth surface that doesn't collect or pool water and is pleasant to drive on. A land plane excels at this job. But you can do it with a rear blade or box blade too, It just takes more skill and is much slower. A land plane will not remove the crown from a road unless you want it to or it is to wide for the road. It should be less than 1/2 the width of the road. Mine is 5' wide and my roads average about 12' with some wider sections. Once the surface is smooth it should be packed. I use a one ton, a p/u or car will work also. This is so you can see what you really have. Some areas may compress more than others when packed. Places where the lose material is deeper like holes and ruts. After it is packed if there are any surface imperfections it should be regraded and repacked until it is right if you expect it to be a long lasting job. If you just smooth and don't pack then as the traffic packs it for you all the holes and ruts may just reform which is a common problem.


gg

I could have written most of this paragraph in regards to maintaining public gravel roads. Problem with most of the public is they want to drive in exactly the same track every time. On heavily traffic roads during Contour Maintenance I may come back in a couple days and do it again. If it's in real bad shape I may be back a couple days later and do it the third time. By then I can usually get the holes filled well enough that traffic doesn't beat them back out. During this maintenance I work the material as wet as I can. Helps it to pack in the holes. On short stretches, mile or less, I've even driven back and forth several times with the road grader to start packing the material before high speed traffic gets on it.

Gordon, you certainly have a good mental grasp on what you are doing. You also have a deep understanding of your equipment at hand and the best way to utilize it.

Thanks for sharing your tips. And especially for the excellent pictures. If I can't understand after all this, I'm just not paying attention.

 

[JRobyn]

IMHO it is not essential that a LPGS "be less than 1/2 the width of the road". My LPGS is 6ft and my roads average about 10ft. This DOES require that I run some tilt on the scraper to avoid cutting off too much of my crown. It is best to run the left side skid right on the top of the crown/center of the road whenever possible, but I often run with the right side skid in the lowest portion (ditch) on the right side of the road.

 

[ovrszd]

IMHO it is not essential that a LPGS "be less than 1/2 the width of the road". My LPGS is 6ft and my roads average about 10ft. This DOES require that I run some tilt on the scraper to avoid cutting off too much of my crown. It is best to run the left side skid right on the top of the crown/center of the road whenever possible, but I often run with the right side skid in the lowest portion (ditch) on the right side of the road.

Show us pictures similar to Gordon's?? Thanks!!!!

 

[jenkinsph]

IMHO it is not essential that a LPGS "be less than 1/2 the width of the road". My LPGS is 6ft and my roads average about 10ft. This DOES require that I run some tilt on the scraper to avoid cutting off too much of my crown. It is best to run the left side skid right on the top of the crown/center of the road whenever possible, but I often run with the right side skid in the lowest portion (ditch) on the right side of the road.

I agree that it is not "essential" but it sure makes the job easier to do with a lpgs that is less than half the width of the working area. If you have to over run the ditch you will likely not get as nice looking results as Gordon's pictures. Notice the nice crisp lines in Gordon's pictures, not going to get that if you are running one side in the ditch. With the lpgs half the width of the road it is always possible to run the length of the road with one skid on the center line.

That is why I suggested a lpgs should be half the width of the road. Gordon is in agreement on this too, I did not see where anyone in the entire thread said it was essential.



To others,
Most of my work with lpgs is for land smoothing and forming. That is why I prefer the 8' model as it does a better job for large areas. I don't think it matters much whether the blades are straight (as mine is) or angled as most manufactured units tend to be. From my uses, washboard is smoothed over cleanly and easily with one pass and I submit that long skids are the reason for this, not a matter of blade angle.

With a rear blade using a steeper angle is more desirable for removing washboard and will result in much better results than setting the blade straight. I rarely ever use the straight position on my rear blade for anything I can think of.

I maintain about 6 miles of gravel roads for my customers. Some are better than others that lack good gravel to work up. I will take some pictures this year when I dress them up

 

[Gordon Gould]

IMHO it is not essential that a LPGS "be less than 1/2 the width of the road". My LPGS is 6ft and my roads average about 10ft. This DOES require that I run some tilt on the scraper to avoid cutting off too much of my crown. It is best to run the left side skid right on the top of the crown/center of the road whenever possible, but I often run with the right side skid in the lowest portion (ditch) on the right side of the road.

I apologize JRobyn if I sounded critical of other ways to do road work. I am not an elitist at all. I was just trying to offer some useful information based on my experience that other folks could consider. When you have a job to do with your tractor often you do not have what others would consider the ideal tool. Part of the game is figuring out how to make what you have work for you like you did. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Also telling us how you do it is helpful to others in the same boat.

gg

 

[Fallon]

I'm sure a really heavy unit wont blink at washboard with any blades. But a more economy unit is likely to need all the advantages it can get. At an angle only part of the blade at any given time will be hitting the tops of the washboard. That will put more pressure on that one specific hard part, where a flat blade would distribute that weight & pressure over the whole blade. It would significantly increase the chances of cutting better & make it less likely to jump & hop. Not fool proof, but any advantage is usually a good one.

 

[prichard]

I've been thinking of making skids for my BB to make it behave more like an LP. We're building a house and really don't have the budget right now for more implements. Anyone tried that?

 

[CADplans]

I've been thinking of making skids for my BB to make it behave more like an LP. We're building a house and really don't have the budget right now for more implements. Anyone tried that?

There is one on YouTube,, so it has been done

 

[jenkinsph]

I'm sure a really heavy unit wont blink at washboard with any blades. But a more economy unit is likely to need all the advantages it can get. At an angle only part of the blade at any given time will be hitting the tops of the washboard. That will put more pressure on that one specific hard part, where a flat blade would distribute that weight & pressure over the whole blade. It would significantly increase the chances of cutting better & make it less likely to jump & hop. Not fool proof, but any advantage is usually a good one.

I understand the theory behind having the blades angled. Most of these lpgs have very little angle about 10 to 12 degrees, not going to make much difference in real use.

With straight blades you can shorten the top link and force the front blade lower to make a uniform depth cut across the entire blade. With angled blades the leading edge will cut aggressively while the trailing edge would be higher causing an uneven cut.

One advantage of angled blades is they will usually leave the dirt or gravel on the trailing edge with very little left on the leading edge side. Much easier to make successive passes with a very smooth appearance compared to a straight blade which leaves a small trail of material on both sides.

 

[CADplans]

I understand the theory behind having the blades angled.
Most of these lpgs have very little angle about 10 to 12 degrees,
not going to make much difference in real use.

This is ANOTHER reason I DIY built mine,, my blade is angled 20 degrees.

Angling more than 10-15 degrees requires lengthening the side runners, that adds cost, and weight.

 

[fried1765]

I understand the theory behind having the blades angled. Most of these lpgs have very little angle about 10 to 12 degrees, not going to make much difference in real use.

With straight blades you can shorten the top link and force the front blade lower to make a uniform depth cut across the entire blade. With angled blades the leading edge will cut aggressively while the trailing edge would be higher causing an uneven cut.

One advantage of angled blades is they will usually leave the dirt or gravel on the trailing edge with very little left on the leading edge side. Much easier to make successive passes with a very smooth appearance compared to a straight blade which leaves a small trail of material on both sides.

The outside to outside (most narrow wheel adjustment) measurement of my Ford 1920 wheels is approximately 60"
I have an 84" King Kutter back blade.
My blade is adjustable from side to side, so I set it to one side - maximum extension..... for driveway grading.
I then angle the blade to the most extreme, or second most extreme, angle setting.
Now I have a blade that extends way beyond the gravel surface of my driveway.
The leading edge of my blade, at the selected angle, is about 18" beyond my wheel track.
It is not fast, but I do find that I can get exactly the grade, and crown that I want, though it takes more than a few passes.
Long ago (now very old) Civil Engineer,.....I am fussy!
An important point for me, is that I do not want my driveway class A gravel migrating to the ditches.
I am able pull it back from the edge, even if I do get a bit of dirt, or a few leaves mixed in.
Class A gravel is expensive! I try not to loose ANY!
I have been using this method for 40+ years.
I do have a box blade, but that is for moving/pulling material.
A land plane ..... is not something I would want! Ever seen anything that looks like a land plane on a road construction job?
A motor grader is the perfect tool for the job, but much too big for a homeowner.
Using a tractor for grading is not optimal, due to the short wheelbase. Front wheels go into a slight dip, blade comes up, front wheels go up a slight bump, blade drops down. I keep my right hand on the 3pt lift control at all times, and anticipate variations.
There are a few old Huber Maintainers (small - belly blade, tractor/graders) still around. They are old (with Continental/Hercules/Perkins engines), and can often be bought at less than $10,000. They are THE PERFECT roadway/long driveway maintenance machine.
BTW: My wife and I never drive in the same driveway track!
A local real estate agent told me my driveway is the best (natural surface) driveway she has ever seen.

 

[CADplans]

Fried1765, I think I read your entire post.
Basically, what you say is;
You use a rear 3PT hitch blade that can be angled,, it takes LOTS of passes.
then,
NOTHING else but a $300,000 motor grader is any good,
because you have never seen it used on a construction site.
(I can get a used one with only 4,000 hours for only $195,000)

I guess there is no middle ground for other attachments to be successful?

My landplane has the actual blades out of the $300,000 CAT 140H motor grader,,
I just am using a slightly lower cost method of getting them over my driveway.
I purchased my blades at the local CAT dealer,, I even use CAT bolts to hold the CAT blades.

I think, for my $300 investment, I am getting pretty close to $300,000 machine equivalent results on my driveway.
I can hardly ever imagine needing more than 2 passes to get these results.

 

[fried1765]

Fried1765, I think I read your entire post.
Basically, what you say is;
You use a rear 3PT hitch blade that can be angled,, it takes LOTS of passes.
then,
NOTHING else but a $300,000 motor grader is any good,
because you have never seen it used on a construction site.
(I can get a used one with only 4,000 hours for only $195,000)

I guess there is no middle ground for other attachments to be successful?

My landplane has the actual blades out of the $300,000 CAT 140H motor grader,,
I just am using a slightly lower cost method of getting them over my driveway.
I purchased my blades at the local CAT dealer,, I even use CAT bolts to hold the CAT blades.

I think, for my $300 investment, I am getting pretty close to $300,000 machine equivalent results on my driveway.
I can hardly ever imagine needing more than 2 passes to get these results.

NOPE!
I ABSOLUTELY DID NOT say that!
Maybe another reading would help???

 

[bcp]

The local CL usually has 2-3 road graders for under $10,000. About once a month I see one for $3-5,000. Usually they are running, mechanical-not hydraulic, and need tires.

About once a month or two, a Huber is posted. Same price range.

Bruce

 

[bcp]

Some modern tractor-graders:

Neilo Kubota M74 Tractor Grader in operation in restricted space - YouTube

Compact Grader Company video - YouTube

Leith Enterprises Mini-Maintainer Belly Blade (TM) - YouTube

Grouser Products Belly Blade - YouTube

Bruce

 

[fried1765]

Some modern tractor-graders:

Neilo Kubota M74 Tractor Grader in operation in restricted space - YouTube

Compact Grader Company video - YouTube

Leith Enterprises Mini-Maintainer Belly Blade (TM) - YouTube

Grouser Products Belly Blade - YouTube

Bruce

Any of these belly blades certainly would useful.
They all suffer from the same short tractor wheelbase problem though.
If you look at photos of the "Huber Maintainer", you will see that it has a much longer than standard tractor wheelbase.
For a grader, wheelbase length is a VERY significant issue!

 

[bcp]

I don't think shorter length is too much of a factor for driveways and gravel roads.

Bruce