Blizzard 2015 Boston

[leonz]

I wonder if they have even considered having melting pits installed
in the city to get rid of it all? They would not have to run them all the
time and the water in them would be bewlow the frost line and would
not freeze.


The borrowed snow melters that they are using are simply
dumping the melt water in the cities storm sewers.

You would think that they would want follow the example that they use on
Hokkaido Island as the villages and towns there have smaller streets and
roads and even heavier snowfalls and they move much heavier annual snows.

 

[Garandman]

I wonder if they have even considered having melting pits installed in the city to get rid of it all? They would not have to run them all the time and the water in them would be bewlow the frost line and would not freeze.

The borrowed snow melters that they are using are simply dumping the melt water in the cities storm sewers.

You would think that they would want follow the example that they use on Hokkaido Island as the villages and towns there have smaller streets and roads and even heavier snowfalls and they move much heavier annual snows.

I didn't find anything specific about that technique, but did learn that they use geothermal heating for some roads.

And the population density on the island is 172 people / sq mi. In Boston, it's 13,340. So I don't think the city is going to be acquiring snow pits anytime soon.

 

[IslandTractor]

I've always wondered why it is considered a terrible thing to just dump the snow into Boston Harbor. In the summer when it rains a good deal of the run off ends up untreated in the harbor and that surface water has a lot more contaminants in it than snow. Most of the snow has never been in direct contact with the street. When certain storm conditions have been met (say 15+ inches in 7 days), why not collect it and dump it in the harbor? It would only happen a few times a year and even thousands of tons of snow would be a relative drop in the bucket for the harbor.

 

[mikehaugen]

I believe Chicago dumps into Lake Michigan, but they may have stopped.

 

[PILOON]

I've always wondered why it is considered a terrible thing to just dump the snow into Boston Harbor. In the summer when it rains a good deal of the run off ends up untreated in the harbor and that surface water has a lot more contaminants in it than snow. Most of the snow has never been in direct contact with the street. When certain storm conditions have been met (say 15+ inches in 7 days), why not collect it and dump it in the harbor? It would only happen a few times a year and even thousands of tons of snow would be a relative drop in the bucket for the harbor.

I would guess that there is a small portion of the population that would not even be happy unless the snow and surface run off water were distilled before being dumped into the oceans.
And at no additional cost.
Naturally as long as it did apply to them as after all they have grandfather rights.

 

[Garandman]

Yall are a little late out of the gate on the debate over dumping of snow directly into bodies of water, that's a 20+ yo Federal policy and most state laws reflect that.
For truck after truck, Boston snow farms are the destination - Metro - The Boston Globe

Tucked away at the far edge of the Seaport District in an industrial area, the vacant lot has a lonely, out-of-the-way feel. But after Tuesdays´ historic blizzard dumped more than two feet of snow in Boston, 6 Tide St. is in heavy demand.

The large expanse serves as one of several snow farms used to store the tons of snow that have bottled up the city this week, like an attic for a cluttered home. On Thursday, truck after truck rumbled into the lot carrying full loads of snow to their final destination. At least until itç—´ warmer.

"It is is a godsend, said Michael Dennehy, the cityç—´ interim commissioner of public works. This is by far the biggest snow farm in the city. The other storage facilities are scattered across the city to reduce travel time for the fleet of plows. The city is using lots by the Franklin Park Zoo, by the Franklin Park golf course, on Geneva Avenue in Dorchester, and in Hyde Park.

In addition, Boston is using two industrial snow-melting machines on loan from the Massachusetts Port Authority, which runs Logan International Airport. The high-volume tanks can melt 150 tons of snow per hour, Dennehy said. The tanks are portable, and are currently at Franklin Park and in East Boston. But while they are highly efficient, the machines are expensive enough to be considered a luxury. The melters were deployed after the massive February 2013 northeaster. You might only use them four times in a decade, Dennehy said.

On Tide Street, the towering piles of snow pushed to the edge of the lot attest to the strength of the storm, one of the largest in Bostonç—´ history, as well as the scope of the cleanup effort. On Thursday, 150 trucks were hauling snow, slowly chipping away at the massive roadside piles.

The farm received 1,400 truck loads, which equals 25,000 cubic yards of snow, during the day.

 

[skyhook]

What about all those "bad' snow fumes from that thing.
Maybe we should just leave the snow where it sit's, and let nature run it's course.
When it melts and dries out, you just sweep the contaminants in a truck.:confused2:

 

[GPintheMitten]

Just pile it, let it dry and light it on fire.

 

[Garandman]

Current forecast for today for Boston - Tuesday is 11-23".

NOAA official snowfall totals season-to-date for some of the NE cities where they make it available.

Caribou, ME 94.0
Worcester 77.7
Portland, ME 66.6
Burlington, VT 65.3
Boston 55.5
Albany, NY 53.8
Hartford, CT 34.9
Providence, RI 36.5
NYC 20.1

 

[Garandman]

Current forecast for today for Boston - Tuesday is 11-23".

NOAA official snowfall totals season-to-date for some of the NE cities where they make it available.

Caribou, ME 94.0
Worcester 77.7
Portland, ME 66.6
Burlington, VT 65.3
Boston 55.5
Albany, NY 53.8
Hartford, CT 34.9
Providence, RI 36.5
NYC 20.1

 

[IslandTractor]

Yep, we got five or six inches of powder overnight. Nothing coming down now but more coming tonight and tomorrow. Looks like another school closing for tomorrow not because of the amount of snow but because of how difficult it is to clear at this point.

 

[coobie]

I've always wondered why it is considered a terrible thing to just dump the snow into Boston Harbor. In the summer when it rains a good deal of the run off ends up untreated in the harbor and that surface water has a lot more contaminants in it than snow. Most of the snow has never been in direct contact with the street. When certain storm conditions have been met (say 15+ inches in 7 days), why not collect it and dump it in the harbor? It would only happen a few times a year and even thousands of tons of snow would be a relative drop in the bucket for the harbor.

That would bring out the tree huggers.LOL

 

[Garandman]

That would bring out the tree huggers.LOL

Moot point: it's been prohibited by federal law for over 20 years. MA and CT allow for emergency dumping: ME, for example, does not allow it under any circumstances. Plowed snow is actually pretty nasty stuff: just because someone here thinks otherwise does mean it is so.

Right now they are using two ice melters that can each melt 350 tons per hour. Snow is very roughly 10 lbs cu ft so that's 70,000 cu ft per hour per machine. Crews have been working 24/7 since the end of the last storm.

If Boston needs an emergency dispensation, the largest snow farm is in a large empty lot adjacent to the harbor. So far it has not been requested, although USCG Boston asked for and was granted a waiver.

 

[IslandTractor]

Well, Boston has declared another snow emergency and closed schools Monday and Tuesday. PITA for parents but much better than having kids standing out in the cold on unplowed streets waiting for buses that are invariably delayed by snow traffic. That makes six snow day cancellations in the past two weeks. I believe we are also about to break some sort of two week snowfall record. Not so bad in the suburbs but inner city life, especially for those dependent on automobiles, must be pretty awful right now. Simply no place left to put snow in areas of Boston (many) where the homes are literally spaced apart by driveways.

 

[IslandTractor]

Moot point: it's been prohibited by federal law for over 20 years. MA and CT allow for emergency dumping: ME, for example, does not allow it under any circumstances. Plowed snow is actually pretty nasty stuff: just because someone here thinks otherwise does mean it is so.

Right now they are using two ice melters that can each melt 350 tons per hour. Snow is very roughly 10 lbs cu ft so that's 70,000 cu ft per hour per machine. Crews have been working 24/7 since the end of the last storm.

If Boston needs an emergency dispensation, the largest snow farm is in a large empty lot adjacent to the harbor. So far it has not been requested, although USCG Boston asked for and was granted a waiver.

Looks like there is not as much opposition to dumping in the harbor as I thought: With no room to put snow, Eastern waterways beckon - USATODAY.com

 

[MikePA]

Plowed snow is actually pretty nasty stuff: just because someone here thinks otherwise does mean it is so.

Three questions;

1. Define nasty.
2. Where does the water from the ice melters end up?
3. Is it treated before ending up where it ends up?

I ask these questions because storm water drainage networks are typically not treated and end up in water ways or percolate through the soil into the ground water.

 

[IslandTractor]

Three questions;

1. Define nasty.
2. Where does the water from the ice melters end up?
3. Is it treated before ending up where it ends up?

I ask these questions because storm water drainage networks are typically not treated and end up in water ways or percolate through the soil into the ground water.

1) oil and trash mixed with snow. Salt and sand are not the issue.
2) water from ice melters enters storm drains
3) I'm pretty sure storm drainage in Boston (unless overflowing) goes to the Deer Island Sewage Treatment plant where it undergoes $1Billion or so worth of fancy purification before being put into a pipeline that takes it many miles out into the Atlantic. I'll double check but that is what was supposed to happen when they built the plant. (Remember Bush senior criticizing then Gov Dukakis because of polluted water in Boston Harbor....this is the outcome).

Just checked: that is pretty much the system here. Big catch basins in various parts of the city (at about 30 million each) hold the water until it can be treated at the Deer Island plant (which actually cost $3.8 billion, not the measly 1 billion I mentioned)

 

[arrow]

1) . Big catch basins in various parts of the city (at about 30 million each) hold the water until it can be treated at the Deer Island plant (which actually cost $3.8 billion, not the measly 1 billion I mentioned)

Billions is a lot of stuff. Just a billion seconds ago it was 1984.

 

[mikehaugen]

Billions is a lot of stuff. Just a billion seconds ago it was 1984.

I guess that makes me a billion seconds old.

 

[coobie]

Moot point: it's been prohibited by federal law for over 20 years. MA and CT allow for emergency dumping: ME, for example, does not allow it under any circumstances. Plowed snow is actually pretty nasty stuff: just because someone here thinks otherwise does mean it is so.

Right now they are using two ice melters that can each melt 350 tons per hour. Snow is very roughly 10 lbs cu ft so that's 70,000 cu ft per hour per machine. Crews have been working 24/7 since the end of the last storm.

If Boston needs an emergency dispensation, the largest snow farm is in a large empty lot adjacent to the harbor. So far it has not been requested, although USCG Boston asked for and was granted a waiver.

I wonder where that 350 tons of snowmelt per hour run off goes to?Moot point I guess.LOL