Biofuels

[Lilguy]

Took my 31 year old l2250 in for a Rops install before selling. Talked to service tech about what problems he sees with new models, Im shopping new B2650.
He spoke of the tier4 issues on the larger tractors and the front axle seal leaks
that I have on my old tractor and they still have issues on new rigs. The one issues he brought up was for me to try and stay away from biodiesel. He's dealing with long term running problems. Especially after long storage.
What is anyones personal take on Biodiesel. My rigs go into storage in November and come out in April. Never had an issue with my two mid 1980 Kubota's

Not easy to find straight diesel around me, maybe truck stop?

 

[dodge man]

I've been running bio diesel almost all the time in my BX. It hard to find diesel without in my area unless you buy bulk. I've had problems with filters plugging in the winter but it's a common problem on the BX's. I've upgraded my filter and haven't had problems since.

 

[adventure bob]

Im a home brewer and there's lots of problems with Bio, none caused by the bio, but by handling and storage and manufacture.
Storage method and age is the primary issue when you get it and put it in your new tractor with piezo electric injectors. Bio oxidizes over time into some nasty components and some particulates. If you get homebrew, there are a lot of people making it, but not a lot making it right.

If you get fresh bio, tested to ASTM 6751 its no issue.

 

[dodge man]

The nice thing about older diesels, most aren't high pressure common rails and the injectors are pretty forgiving.

 

[David_Kb7uns]

The garbage here is holding so much water and it is rusting all my fuel senders and filter end plates. Put water traps on everything.

David

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Bio makes a purple sludge in the colder climates that coats everything from the fuel tank up to the injector tip and is bad news trying to get off. I refuse to run bio.

 

[MHarryE]

I have a M1e5GX and had my first fuel filter blockage at 843 hours. The 3rd of 4 filters was black - often referred to as bio diesel filter blockage sludge. So I was stopped, dead, in the field. However my manual says the filter should have been replaced at 800 hours. Was it a bio problem? Was it due to my being so interested in working that I didn't change filters as set out in the manual? I live in MN which I believe has the highest bio diesel percentage requirement in the country, in part to aid oil seed farmers such as myself.

 

[David_Kb7uns]

All diesel in Oregon is B5 minimum and most auto pumps are going B20 hold on for the crap to start hitting the fan.

David

 

[oosik]

Hmmm - here in NE WA I have not been able to find biodiesel. Guess, so far, we are just fortunate.

 

[adventure bob]

Eric, I'm trying to figure out what inherently in biodiesel produces a purple sludge. Cant find an algae that would do that. Maybe they're treating with something. Most algae's that live in the water in bio don't do well in colder climates either. How cold are we talking? ND cold? 40 below? or CO cold 15-20 deg?
Again, I would argue, and there's plenty of lit out there that shows its generally not the bio its the handling and storage.

 

[KennyV]

" its generally not the bio its the handling and storage ".

BioDiesel is Wonderful But has flow problems when very cold. KennyV

 

[adventure bob]

Bios cold performance is also related to what it was made from. Back to the whole chemistry thing. Plant base stock perform better than animal stock in cold weather. However, regular diesel has to be treated for cold weather as well.

 

[Dennis Hutton]

I have a M1e5GX and had my first fuel filter blockage at 843 hours. The 3rd of 4 filters was black - often referred to as bio diesel filter blockage sludge. So I was stopped, dead, in the field. However my manual says the filter should have been replaced at 800 hours. Was it a bio problem? Was it due to my being so interested in working that I didn't change filters as set out in the manual? I live in MN which I believe has the highest bio diesel percentage requirement in the country, in part to aid oil seed farmers such as myself.

When you start using bio fuel it will clean out sludge from diesel an you should change the filters the first time at a shorter interval. After that back to recommended changes.

 

[rScotty]

When you start using bio fuel it will clean out sludge from diesel an you should change the filters the first time at a shorter interval. After that back to recommended changes.

I've been considering running a few tanks of pure B100 biodiesel this summer just to help decarbon the engine and clean things up. This is in an interim Tier IV Kubota engine with an EGR valve. Right now we have almost 1000 hours on the tractor - much of that is low RPM just above an idle. So although it is working well, there's a good chance that the engine has carbon and soot deposits.

The only reason for trying bio is that I've heard that running biodiesel will clean up the inside of an engine, but is that true? Has anyone seen it happen or is this an urban legend? I did run a few tankfuls of B20 last summer and frankly it didn't seem to run any different from regular diesel fuel.

Luckily we have a local source for professionally made B100 biofuel from soy oil - so the quality of the fuel itself should be good. Changing fuel filters doesn't bother me, but I wonder if bio really will get soot and carbon deposits out of an engine that has idled too long. Or am I wasting time an energy? There's no other reason to put bio in it. So far all that motor has seen is clean low Sulfer diesel from the pump - which I re-filter, de-water, and add Opti-lube XPD additive before putting it in the tractor.

thanks, rScotty

 

[dodge man]

I’ve heard it will help clean the fuel system, but I’m not sure about the combustion side of things.

 

[napabavarian]

Go back and ask him for specific problems.

There are some serious issues, but they mostly pertain to secondary injection for dpf regen.

Any rubber may degrade, replace as needed with viton.

I've found a lot of folks who badmouth biofuels have nothing to say as soon as you know your problems, up to that point they use the generic it will ruin your engine line.

I've been using wvo and biodiesel since 2005 and a friend has logged over 100,000 miles on his duramax using biodiesel.

Took my 31 year old l2250 in for a Rops install before selling. Talked to service tech about what problems he sees with new models, Im shopping new B2650.
He spoke of the tier4 issues on the larger tractors and the front axle seal leaks
that I have on my old tractor and they still have issues on new rigs. The one issues he brought up was for me to try and stay away from biodiesel. He's dealing with long term running problems. Especially after long storage.
What is anyones personal take on Biodiesel. My rigs go into storage in November and come out in April. Never had an issue with my two mid 1980 Kubota's

Not easy to find straight diesel around me, maybe truck stop?

 

[napabavarian]

BioDiesel is Wonderful But has flow problems when very cold. KennyV

More specifically it gels at a higher temperature and there is no antigel available, there is a product you can use to drop solids in a holding tank and pump liquid fuel off the top.

 

[napabavarian]

It will clean the fuel system but not internal carbon, best thing is to run it hard if that is a serious issue.

Soaking parts in biodiesel will clean carbon off.

BioDiesel is Wonderful But has flow problems when very cold. KennyV

I've been considering running a few tanks of pure B100 biodiesel this summer just to help decarbon the engine and clean things up. This is in an interim Tier IV Kubota engine with an EGR valve. Right now we have almost 1000 hours on the tractor - much of that is low RPM just above an idle. So although it is working well, there's a good chance that the engine has carbon and soot deposits.

The only reason for trying bio is that I've heard that running biodiesel will clean up the inside of an engine, but is that true? Has anyone seen it happen or is this an urban legend? I did run a few tankfuls of B20 last summer and frankly it didn't seem to run any different from regular diesel fuel.

Luckily we have a local source for professionally made B100 biofuel from soy oil - so the quality of the fuel itself should be good. Changing fuel filters doesn't bother me, but I wonder if bio really will get soot and carbon deposits out of an engine that has idled too long. Or am I wasting time an energy? There's no other reason to put bio in it. So far all that motor has seen is clean low Sulfer diesel from the pump - which I re-filter, de-water, and add Opti-lube XPD additive before putting it in the tractor.

thanks, rScotty

 

[napabavarian]

It sounds like you have a bad supplier or dirty fuel system, unless you are talking about geling

BioDiesel is Wonderful But has flow problems when very cold. KennyV

Bio makes a purple sludge in the colder climates that coats everything from the fuel tank up to the injector tip and is bad news trying to get off. I refuse to run bio.

 

[rScotty]

It will clean the fuel system but not internal carbon, best thing is to run it hard if that is a serious issue.

Soaking parts in biodiesel will clean carbon off.

I think that is the answer I was looking for. You have defined the problem I'm working on exactly. I don't need to clean the fuel system; I do need to clean out internal carbon. So a great big thanks to you, Barbarian.

BTW, when I was growing up, our whole extended family would travel out from the Ozark & Wa****a Mountains of Okla&Ark to pick fruit down the west coast. Sometimes we would spend the winter in the Napa area picking grapes and other crops. The weather in Napa is so nice we mostly camped & slept outside....sometimes in local farmers barns if it was raining.
In the evenings Dad & I would fix some of the old machinery for small producers in the area for fun, food, or extra cash.
That was a wonderful time, and it was also how we made most of our money for the year, here not being much opportunity back home.
It was a nice time, great memories.
Enjoy!!
rScotty