Biggest PTO Pump

[Tim's Red Tractor]

Hello All,

I am looking for the biggest PTO pump for my 6-spline 540 pto shaft can handle.

I can find the Prince 23 GPM but is there anything above that.

I have a Mahindra 2565.

Thanks

 

[3Ts]

What are you pumping? Is this for water based sprays (chemical sprays of insecticides) or hydraulic fluid or irrigation or something else?

 

[Tim's Red Tractor]

Hydraulic fluid for an articulating brush cutter.

 

[Richard]

Don't know if it would help.....nor do I know (obviously) if you already have one.

I have a 15' Terrain King (now owned by Alamo) flexwing hydraulic mower. It uses a speed increaser and my pump attaches to the speed increaser.

So my question is, do you also have a speed increaser on yours? If so, then ignore the rest. Keep in mind that I'm not too technical on this stuff so this is my lay understanding. My speed increaser is a 4x increaser. So it attaches to the PTO which spins at 540. It takes the 540 and multiplies it up to 2,160. My pump attaches to the increaser and now my pump has an input of 2,160 rpm's.

Does yours have/need anything like this? When I spoke to Alamo after I bought this (trying to buy some seals) the guy I talked to said he was surprised that I had the increaser along with the mower. Went on to say that people usually sell them separate although I can't understand why as without the increaser, I'd have no way to mount the pump. None the less, that's what he said.

 

[3Ts]

How about this? It's 39 gpm and under 50 hp. They do make a bigger one but it's only 40 gpm and requires 59 hp.

PTO pump

 

[ptsg]

Surplus Center does list a 39 GPM and a 40 GPM PTO pumps. PTO Pumps | Hydraulic Pumps | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

Most hydraulic systems run at around 2600 PSI, so 23 GPM at 2600 PSI will require somewhere around 39 HP at the PTO. 40 GPM at 2600 PSI will require around 67 HP. SurplusCenter also has some good and helpful calculators to figure this stuff out.

Following Richard's advice, that's all we run on this side of the pond, a speed increaser with a standard gear pump mounted to it. They're available for Group 2 and 3 pumps and you can pretty much mount whatever size of pump needed to the PTO speed increaser.

 

[Tim's Red Tractor]

A couple of the pumps say 1000rpm, so I would need a 2:1 speed increaser?

 

[BukitCase]

"I would need a 2:1 speed increaser?"

I'm not familiar with your tractor, but you may ALSO need to pay attention to input/output shaft size and spline count - higher rpm shafts tend to have 21 spline shaft vs 540 rpm shafts which tend to be 6 tooth splines. On the surplus link, look at the specs column.

I've never used a speed increaser so this may be a moot point; for all I know, the increasers may ALREADY have 6 spline input and 21 spline output... Steve

Just checked - TractorData.com Mahindra 2565 tractor information

Says your tractor has ONLY a 540 rpm PTO.

I just checked surplus site, and ALL their pumps with 1000 rpm input and high flow need the 21 spline input shaft.

Suplus doesn't seem to offer any speed INCREASERS, good luck... Steve

 

[Richard]

I can't speak to the above....and as an added bonus for myself, I've got both PTO's.

The increaser I have can be mounted to either shaft. All you need to do (as I recall) is replace the receiver "gear" which is of a certain size to correspond to the 540 input shaft AND it has a different diameter.

So, swap out for 1,000 "receiver gear" and the receiver splines are different AND the diameter is different making it 1,000 compatible. However, you'd need the 1,000 shaft on your tractor.

Given my general lack of knowledge of this stuff BUT, taking in mind that I've learned a little.... I'd presume you are able to make it work with a 540 x "??" speed increaser mated with appropriate pump.

What does the manufacturer suggest? Can't you just go down that road?

 

[oldnslo]

Hydraulic fluid for an articulating brush cutter.

What flow and pressure does this cutter require?

per tractor data you have around 50 HP at your PTO so that may be the limiting factor

 

[Tim's Red Tractor]

I just found this pump/increaser combo. Not sure on $$ but I will call them tomorrow. This could solve both issues.

Hydraulic PTO Pumps & Motors 50T Series | Cross Mfg.

Hydraulic PTO pumps can be driven by a 540 or 1000 RPM with a 3:1 speed increase. A thru-type internal spline can drive accessories while driving the pump too.

crossmfg.com

I was told the brush cutter needed 10-25GPM. My tractor offers 11gpm, I started by connecting the cutter to my third function. There was enough flow to turn the blades but not enough to simultaneously run the (up/down, left/right).

So I bought a power pack (25gal reservoir + 21gpm pto pump). Hooked it up the other day and same result. Spins the blade but no motion, the only difference is now I can see the hoses jump when I try to use the up/down.

That all leads me to why I am searching for a higher flow option.

 

[ptsg]

I just found this pump/increaser combo. Not sure on $$ but I will call them tomorrow. This could solve both issues.

Hydraulic PTO Pumps & Motors 50T Series | Cross Mfg.

Hydraulic PTO pumps can be driven by a 540 or 1000 RPM with a 3:1 speed increase. A thru-type internal spline can drive accessories while driving the pump too.

crossmfg.com

I was told the brush cutter needed 10-25GPM. My tractor offers 11gpm, I started by connecting the cutter to my third function. There was enough flow to turn the blades but not enough to simultaneously run the (up/down, left/right).

So I bought a power pack (25gal reservoir + 21gpm pto pump). Hooked it up the other day and same result. Spins the blade but no motion, the only difference is now I can see the hoses jump when I try to use the up/down.

That all leads me to why I am searching for a higher flow option.

Ok this lastest info is very important and should've definitely been included in the first post.

You have another issue going there with the power pack, most likely with plumbing, rather than a lack of GPM. The power pack should only feed the cutter. The loader will still use the tractor hydraulics and should move just fine.

 

[Tim's Red Tractor]

ptsg:

The cutter came pre plumbed with only 1 set of lines to connect. Those lines feed a valve assembly with solenoids to activate each function, the flow is continuous to the blade (the blade steals all the flow).

I was thinking the same as you. If I disconnect the hoses running the blade and connect to the pump + tank for continuous flow. Then I can connect the valve assembly to my third functions. Although that is not how it was designed.

 

[ptsg]

ptsg:

The cutter came pre plumbed with only 1 set of lines to connect. Those lines feed a valve assembly with solenoids to activate each function, the flow is continuous to the blade (the blade steals all the flow).

I was thinking the same as you. If I disconnect the hoses running the blade and connect to the pump + tank for continuous flow. Then I can connect the valve assembly to my third functions. Although that is not how it was designed.

Leave the loader valve setup as it was from factory.

Then connect the pressure line from the power pack to the motor on the cutter and the return comes from the motor to the power pack. All you need to do is turning the PTO on and it will start the mower. Pretty much like hydraulic snowblowers are setup on tractors with power packs.

 

[K5lwq]

ptsg:

The cutter came pre plumbed with only 1 set of lines to connect. Those lines feed a valve assembly with solenoids to activate each function, the flow is continuous to the blade (the blade steals all the flow).

I was thinking the same as you. If I disconnect the hoses running the blade and connect to the pump + tank for continuous flow. Then I can connect the valve assembly to my third functions. Although that is not how it was designed.

Could you post a picture of the cutter and the valves with plumbing? Maybe it would help us understand what is happening.

As ptsg said, I don’t think you have a flow rate problem. Something is off on the plumbing or is mechanically binding. I am guessing this unit has it’s own cylinders for movement?

 

[oldnslo]

I just found this pump/increaser combo. Not sure on $$ but I will call them tomorrow. This could solve both issues.

Hydraulic PTO Pumps & Motors 50T Series | Cross Mfg.

Hydraulic PTO pumps can be driven by a 540 or 1000 RPM with a 3:1 speed increase. A thru-type internal spline can drive accessories while driving the pump too.

crossmfg.com

I was told the brush cutter needed 10-25GPM. My tractor offers 11gpm, I started by connecting the cutter to my third function. There was enough flow to turn the blades but not enough to simultaneously run the (up/down, left/right).

So I bought a power pack (25gal reservoir + 21gpm pto pump). Hooked it up the other day and same result. Spins the blade but no motion, the only difference is now I can see the hoses jump when I try to use the up/down.

That all leads me to why I am searching for a higher flow option.

If mower came with manifold and valve assembly was there a schematic also provided? Suspect should be a priority flow control to supply a small flow to the aux functions without changing cutter head speed.

 

[Tim's Red Tractor]

The brush cutter is a "TOMCAT articulating brush cutter"

 

[Tim's Red Tractor]

IMG8890 shows the lines coming from the tractor into the manifold
IMG8887 shows the lines on top of the manifold exiting the manifold and feeding the blades and the 4 lines on bottom feeding the up/down, left/right.

The solenoids are wired to a remote I have in the cab. If I stand next to the cutter with the tractor off I can hear the solenoids click as if they are working. I then get in the tractor and turn the pto pump on and the blade spins, but the up/down, left/right do not work. As stated above I can see the hoses jump when I press the remote but nothing moves other than the blades.

 

[ptsg]

My bad on the suggestion about running the mower directly with the power pack. I didn't realize it had a small boom with 2 functions. The pictures did clear that up.

Are sure the lines are connected correctly between the power pack and the valve body of the mower? As in, Pressure from the power pack going into the Pressure port of the valve body and same for the Tank line/ports.

I couldn't find much info online about the mower. Only that it's sold by an auction company.

EDIT: On the picture of the valve body, I see the set screw and the jam nut of the relief valve backed off. That could be part of the issue but without manuals and a pressure gauge, it's to risky to mess with it "by luck".

 

[oldnslo]

Are there any markings on that manifold or any instructions provided with unit.

Do the blades stop spinning when using the power pack and operating one of the solenoid functions?

I see one valve with two coils, is there a second similar valve in that manifold?

agree with Ptsg on there is a valve possibly relief with adjustment screw appears backed out and lose but like he stated I would not just randomly try adjusting something.