Bigger alternator

BAGTIC · Jan 21, 2007

I think I want more alternator/battery capacityfor use with sprayers, seeders, winches, etc. Is it possible to replace the little 20 ampere alternator with something larger; also, a larger battery?

Battery would not seem a problem as there seems to be room.

dqdave1 · Jan 21, 2007

If you got the room for a larger alternator; then you could mount one; remember that it will rob HP from the engine when loaded.

MossRoad · Jan 22, 2007

Which engine do you have?

BAGTIC · Jan 22, 2007

I have the Robin.

J_J · Jan 22, 2007

I was looking through the Robin engine description, for the EH-72, and they say that the engine can be configured for an output of 30 amps. If yours is a 15 amp alternator, I believe that you can upgrade.

MossRoad · Jan 22, 2007

I'm gonna aska few questions... don't think I'm being rude or anything like that. I just like asking questions and don't want to come across as a know-it-all, which you folks know I am far from...

so here goes...

Why do you want a winch? I can only think of two reasons to have a winch:
1. To get unstuck.
2. To haul stuff out of inaccessible places.

If you are getting stuck so often that a winch seems like a good idea, perhaps you should look at different tires and or tire chains. A PT425 is not a heavy machine. A comealong or hand winch, a couple lengths of sturdy cable with loops in the ends and a tree saver strap are cheap compared to a winch and much less strain on the charging system and they are very effective for the few times that you will use them.

If you are wanting to haul stuff out of inaccessible places, a length of sturdy cable will do the job very well. I have an old 5/8" wrecker winch cable that is about 100' long. If I can't get closer than that, it doesn't need to come out of the woods.

Sprayers and seeders are another story. I'll guess that the convesion of your engine's alternator to a larger output unit will cost more than a deep cycle marine battery. A deep cycle battery will run a trolling motor for hours and hours, so I see no reason why it wouldn't do the same for a spray rig or seeder. I'd look into a battery tray for the seeder and sprayer and keep a marine battery on a battery tender for when they are needed.

Anyway, I guess I'd have to see what the conversion costs for the alternator would be first.

BobRip · Jan 22, 2007

J_J said:
I was looking through the Robin engine description, for the EH-72, and they say that the engine can be configured for an output of 30 amps. If yours is a 15 amp alternator, I believe that you can upgrade.

I believe there was an earlier thread where someone had the 30 amp upgrade, had lots of problems and then went back to the 15 amp.
I like Moss's suggestions of a deep cycle battery. Even using the existing battery and then connect a maintenance charger when you were done would probably work, especially if you only need it a few times a year. How much current does the spreader pull? If its 20 amps or so it would take a long time to run the battery down while charging at 15 . Sorry to deviate so far from the initial request.

BAGTIC · Jan 23, 2007

Mostly I want to get stuff out of inaccessible places.

I have some ponds that seem to collect fallen branches and trees. I have tried , mostly unsuccessfully, dragging them out with the 425. Some of them are just too heavy and some I can not get good traction because of the levees around the pond. The top of the levee is too narrow to get a good pull and the levee too high to pull from the backside as I am in a hole. I thought perhaps I could strap the tractor to a sturdy tree for anchorage and winch them out.

I also have a pond dam that is high, steep, and runs alongside the neighbor's barbed wire fences. I need to keep deadwood cleaned out there and keep small saplings, etc. pulled so they don't infiltrate the dam.

I have not had much luck with the little manual cable winches over the years. Lots of broken pullers and frayed and broken cables. What do you think about a manual chain puller belted to a tree with cable extensions and perhaps a few extra pulleys for increased leverage? I am trying to keep the physical exhertion limited because of doctor's restrictions against strenuous activity.

BobRip · Jan 23, 2007

BAGTIC said:
Mostly I want to get stuff out of inaccessible places.

I have some ponds that seem to collect fallen branches and trees. I have tried , mostly unsuccessfully, dragging them out with the 425. Some of them are just too heavy and some I can not get good traction because of the levees around the pond. The top of the levee is too narrow to get a good pull and the levee too high to pull from the backside as I am in a hole. I thought perhaps I could strap the tractor to a sturdy tree for anchorage and winch them out.

I also have a pond dam that is high, steep, and runs alongside the neighbor's barbed wire fences. I need to keep deadwood cleaned out there and keep small saplings, etc. pulled so they don't infiltrate the dam.

I have not had much luck with the little manual cable winches over the years. Lots of broken pullers and frayed and broken cables. What do you think about a manual chain puller belted to a tree with cable extensions and perhaps a few extra pulleys for increased leverage? I am trying to keep the physical exhertion limited because of doctor's restrictions against strenuous activity.

Have your considered the hydraulic driven winch from Power Trac. It can use about 12 or 15 horspower from the engine. This is far more power than you would get from an electric winch.

MossRoad · Jan 24, 2007

BAGTIC said:
Mostly I want to get stuff out of inaccessible places.

I have some ponds that seem to collect fallen branches and trees. I have tried , mostly unsuccessfully, dragging them out with the 425. Some of them are just too heavy and some I can not get good traction because of the levees around the pond. The top of the levee is too narrow to get a good pull and the levee too high to pull from the backside as I am in a hole. I thought perhaps I could strap the tractor to a sturdy tree for anchorage and winch them out.

I also have a pond dam that is high, steep, and runs alongside the neighbor's barbed wire fences. I need to keep deadwood cleaned out there and keep small saplings, etc. pulled so they don't infiltrate the dam.

I have not had much luck with the little manual cable winches over the years. Lots of broken pullers and frayed and broken cables. What do you think about a manual chain puller belted to a tree with cable extensions and perhaps a few extra pulleys for increased leverage? I am trying to keep the physical exhertion limited because of doctor's restrictions against strenuous activity.

I understand about the doctor's restrictions, so let's get some discussion going on this.

I see a couple problems with putting a winch on the 400 series tractor.

1. The tractor is light in weight; we don't have much traction for winching.
2. The factory winch mounts on the FEL arms. A strong sideways pull may bend or twist the FEL arms.
3. An electric aftermarket winch will suck the battery down quickly and the little alternator on the gas engines will take a long time to catch up.

We could lessen the effects of #1 and #2 a bit by doing a few things. Different tires, tire chains, anchoring the PT to an immovable object like a tree, or mounting some teeth or fangs onto the bottom of the winch plate to dig into the ground and anchor it that way.

If it were me, and I needed the winch, I would probably choose the factory winch and modify the mounting plate with some gussets and teeth so that I could use the FEL down pressure to push the teeth into the ground before a pull to act as the anchor. I would also make sure that I am lined up directly with the pull so that I would not pull at an angle and risk damaging the FEL arms. I would also consider a removable steel screen that I could hang on the ROPS in front of the operator just in case the cable snaps.

Anyhow, just some thoughts.

Charlie_Iliff · Jan 24, 2007

We mount an electric winch on the back of my 1845, in the 2" receiver. It has its own battery, which is short lived, supplemented by jumper cables to the PT.
A thought. If you mount a winch on a frame with a couple of batteries, you can carry it into position with the PT and chain the winch to a tree. Our winch will drag the 1845 before moving some of the heavier logs, so a nearby tree is often used anyway.

DHS · Jan 24, 2007

BAGTIC said:
I think I want more alternator/battery capacityfor use with sprayers, seeders, winches, etc. Is it possible to replace the little 20 ampere alternator with something larger; also, a larger battery?

Battery would not seem a problem as there seems to be room.

My original Robin voltage regulator was the larger 30 amp model. I went through two of them in less than a year. The smaller 15 amp model is considerably less expensive and has kept working for over three years.

The 30 amp Robin V/R is approximately $125. 30 amp part number is 263-71902-A1.

Dale

MossRoad · Jan 24, 2007

Charlie_Iliff said:
We mount an electric winch on the back of my 1845, in the 2" receiver. It has its own battery, which is short lived, supplemented by jumper cables to the PT.
A thought. If you mount a winch on a frame with a couple of batteries, you can carry it into position with the PT and chain the winch to a tree. Our winch will drag the 1845 before moving some of the heavier logs, so a nearby tree is often used anyway.

That seems like a good method.

Central_PA_Chris · Feb 2, 2009

I know, I'm replying to an old post, but these archives get used and I'm digging into winches at the moment because I've got both a spare Mile Marker 9000lb hydraulic and a 3000lb gorilla electric ATV winch hanging around and am deciding which (if either) to put on a impliment plate for the PT. The concern about power output and winches is a good one, but there are many ATV winches out there and most ATV's have 20amp or less alternators. Yep, don't want to work them all day, but I'd think a few pulls here or there should be fine off the stock PT power system. Just turn your lights off first.

I do like the idea of putting some teath on the mounting plate so you can have the plate dig in and take the force of the pull if you are mounting on the FEL and not on the rear of the PT.

Wireless remotes or 10' control leads for ATV winches are generally only $20-$40 more, so you can get out of line of the cable cheaper than you can build a protector screen.

Here's a link to a popular, super affordable ATV winch....
Gorilla Winch Professional Series Waterproof 2500lb ATV Winch

When comparing vs the price of the PT winch, unless you are going to work it very hard, very often I think I'd go with an electric ATV winch.

SpringHollow · Feb 2, 2009

I bought one of those gorilla winches with the remote controls. They are reasonable for what you pay. I hardly use it now that i have the gas portable winch - unlimited rope length capable, constant pulling force, and runs as long as i have gas. I had planned on getting a hydraulic winch for the pt instead of the electric but now i do not have to tie up my hydraulics just because i need to winch something. It is nice to be able to use both the winch and the grapple bucket or regular bucket at the same time when doing firewood for example. And i can use the winch without the pt as well. I was doing the same thing with the electric winch but those large deep cycle batteries get heavy caring them through the woods.

Ken

BobRip · Feb 2, 2009

ksimolo said:
I bought one of those gorilla winches with the remote controls. They are reasonable for what you pay. I hardly use it now that i have the gas portable winch - unlimited rope length capable, constant pulling force, and runs as long as i have gas. I had planned on getting a hydraulic winch for the pt instead of the electric but now i do not have to tie up my hydraulics just because i need to winch something. It is nice to be able to use both the winch and the grapple bucket or regular bucket at the same time when doing firewood for example. And i can use the winch without the pt as well. I was doing the same thing with the electric winch but those large deep cycle batteries get heavy caring them through the woods.

Ken

Do you use the PT to carry the winch and then tie it to a tree or something?

woodlandfarms · Feb 2, 2009

Ken and I have 65 Amp alternators, but I have a cheapo winch I got from HF. Basically I ran some heavy gauge wire to the front and rear of the tractor. I put in a relay and (this is an 1850 thing) I converted the switch that turns on and off the hydraulic seat to turn on and off this electrical outlet. I use trailer connectors and put a connector on the front and rear of the PT. I then put the matching connector on my sprayer and on my winch. So flip the switch and off you go.

Now, on my Winch, I had some small lengths of chain, so I bolted the chain to the winch. Ken had very kindly had a BUNCH of hooks welded to our PT's so you can put the chain in the chain hooks so it is easy to just drag the winch out to where I am stuck and hook it the chains in.

Did what I say make sense?

SnowRidge · Feb 2, 2009

woodlandfarms said:
Did what I say make sense?

No, but TVA spilled a billion -- as in B not M illion -- gallons of fly ash sludge into the Clinch River here, and today I saw three guys out in a blizzard trying to vacuum a few scraps of it up along the shore of Watts Bar reservoir with a giant four wheel drive Hoover, all on the taxpayer's dime. Talk about really sucking.

So, in a perverse way, it really doesn't matter any more because nothing makes sense these days. I just go to the bank and see how much money I don't have left, and then I notice how fast the feds are spending the stuff they don't have either, and I think what's the point. It's all kind of like owning a Power Trac. No matter what you do, it's gonna break again sooner or later, and TVA is going to raise our electric rates to pay for the clean up and the bonuses the ladled out. Because of that, I won't be able to afford to run the welder to fix the beast, and the cycle goes on.

Maybe we should all apply for a bailout.

SpringHollow · Feb 2, 2009

BobRip said:
Do you use the PT to carry the winch and then tie it to a tree or something?

The winch weighs 32 lbs so sometimes i just carry it and a sack of rope, etc. into the woods and pull out logs. Most often though, i have it in my bucket or trailer with chainsaws, extra chain saw chains, fuel, etc. and get it close with the pt or atv. Right now, i am pulling stuff out ~ 700' downhill from the house.

The winch has hooks on it for strapping it to a tree or has a ball mount or a 2" receiver mount. I have yet to use the ball or receiver mount since it is so easy to strap to a tree but i can imagine situations where it would be useful.

Two different owners across the street got their cars off into a deep ditch alongside their driveway, buried up to the frame in mud. First time, there was enough room to drive by it with my pt with the tire chains and i was able to pull him out. The second time, the vehicle was too crosswise to the driveway to get by. So i just got the gas winch and walked around, hooked it up to a tree and pulled him out. I had thought about these winches for a few years and really kick myself for not getting one earlier and "wasting" my money on the electric one.

Ken