Bashing

/ Bashing #21  
CHAMP; not real familar with the bx 2200, but i know i can start my b2400(98) without being on tractor,but if any gear or pto is engaged it won't start.as far a s jd being built in usa, i may be wrong but i belive they ARE ASSEMBLED IN GEORGIA. NOT MADE THERE.also i do beleive any machine sold in usa must meet usa safety issues.both are fine machines, u have to make the choice. i would not be afarid to but either tractor. i just liked kubota better.
 
/ Bashing #22  
Re: Bashing (JD vs Kubota)

Regarding the BX2200, the shortcoming of the 3-point lift system is the short lift arms, which limits the number of category-1 implements that can physically attach to it. Note that there does exist nearly every kind of category-1 implement designed for small compact tractors such as the BX2200. There are posts on this board about a 3-point Back-hoe for the new version of the BX2200.

Another common opinion on this board expressed towards new buyers that you should consider: Regardless of brand, if in doubt about the size, go bigger; consider going bigger even if not in doubt. I have made up the following numbers about follow-on comments posted on this board, but they get the point across: After new buyers became experienced with their new tractor, about 3% wished they had purchased a smaller tractor, about 37% were satisfied, and the remaining 60% wished they had purchased a larger tractor.

Regarding the engines, I know that Bobcats are a very popular piece of commercial equipment and advertisements usually boast about having Kubota engines. They may have John Deere engine options as well but if so I have never heard of them.

I wonder if the JD salesman left Kubota on his own will...

Overall, I have been very pleased with both of my Kubotas (B7100 and B2150). Prior to purchasing my Kubota, I rented a John Deere with FEL and yard box from a local rental dealer for a few days and was pleased with it as well. You might consider renting a tractor from your local rental company ($120-$150 per day) if that will help you make a more educated choice; it may be worth it. I purchased Kubota over John Deere because of (1) I found a really good deal on a used Kubota and (2) I didn't like the local John Deere dealer and didn't want to have to deal with him (basically the same attitude problem..."John Deere's the best and you'd be stupid to look elsewhere")

I have no experience with NH, so I can't comment on them. It seems like they get a lot of favorable reviews on this board.

Good luck in your shopping. To me, first time tractor shopping is akin to first time computer shopping, they both have varying degrees of aggravation but better foreknowledge pays off in the long run.
Kelvin
 
/ Bashing #23  
Now I always do this so I'm not exactly sure. Don't you have to depress the clutch before the starter will turn over the motor? Seems like it would be a motivated person who could depress the clutch while not on the tractor. Does anyone know what exactly makes you have to be on the tractor for the John Deere to start? What keeps coming to my mind is those switches on our old riding lawnmower where if you got knocked off the engine would quit. I'm sure they wouldn't be using that method as the seat belt would make it unnecessary.

Jeff


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/ Bashing #24  
Jeff,
I can start my Kubota B2710 while not being on the tractor. It can't be in any gear and the PTO has to be off. I hold the clutch down with my hand and turn the key, saves from having to get on to start and then get off while it warms up.

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/ Bashing
  • Thread Starter
#25  
If the JD4100 is a repainted Yanmar, does anyone know which model of Yanmar?
 
/ Bashing #26  
I am absolutely positive the 4100 is a repainted and made in Japan Yanamar sold as a rebadged JD. It is an excellent unit I understand. I actually have some minor experiance with it, before I got the BX, the guy who owned the grass strip I used to fly out of bought one for maintaining the airport property. It is a wonderful unit. The only thing I know bad that happened was that it was vandalized and took several weeks to get replacement parts. The part about the Kubota and BX being inferior technology is a rediculous lie by a desperate dealer. Kubota is number 1 (my opinion) and eveything else is a second place finisher. Could I be happy with a 4100--you bet, as I said I thought it was a wonderful unit and you might be able to pick it up cheaper than a similar Kubota. What Kubota matches up best with it--the superior B2410. JD does not have anything that matches the BX thus their desperation--the ROP's statement is pure BS--it is hell for stout especially compared to the JD455 which has no ROP's and costs more! How do I know you ask--I tied off on it to pull the BX out of the lagoon because I did not want to get in the sewage to tie on to the draw bar--I pulled it out with the Tundra from the sticky goo and it held up just fine.
Mowing on slopes--the BX is the winner hands down--said before--everything is a compromise. J
 
/ Bashing #27  
Let me add one more thing, I have seen the pics of the new BX competitor at a site on Yahoo. I cannot figure out how to get back there to save my life since I lost all my data when my 'puter went down. Anyway, it looks like a JD455 with according to the specs available 4WD, available 3 point and I am pretty sure it still had no ROP. The loader was not avaialbe to see. The JD had the same rear wheel size as the BX but it had a larger diameter front wheel. My impression, if what I was looking at is the JD BX clone they better go back to the drawing board cuz their 40 yr old technology ain't gona cut it agaisnt Kubotas 15 year old technology /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif . None of these things are a Lexus or a BMW and truely is an electro/computer controled tractor what you want to send swimming in your lagoon? I hate to say this and I am sure my neighbor is not on this site--I hope--his JD455 is a piece o' crap--there, I said it--not PC correct--flame me till dooms day but my BX makes that thing look like a Model T. If you are shopping for a 4100 I would compare agaisnt the 7500 and 2410 and then picK the dealer you like and the tractor with the best price and if that is the 4100 then have at it--Yanamar builds a nice machine. J
 
/ Bashing #28  
As an owner of a BX that researched the 4100 and NH21D before buying, I thought I'd answer point for point, as the salesman SHOULD be doing.

* The BX is 12-15 year old technology.
The design of the machine certainly isn't! Take a look at the deck, nice and flat, without a huge hump to straddle. Notice the ergonomics of the BX compared with a tractor made in '88. No, it isn't an old design.

The JD on the other hand has that old familiar case to straddle, I remember getting on and off frequently, stepping up and over it each and every time. I also remember thinking that it wasn't nearly as new a design as the BX.

* They are seriously lacking in their safety features.
Which safety features? All moving parts are safely behind guards.

* The ROPS is useless, and doesn't meet North American safety standards.
Where is the documentation on this? I have a hard time believing this. I drove under a swing set once at a decent clip, i might add, and the entire front of the tractor pointed at the sky. After I backed up and changed my shorts, no dmagae to the ROPS at all, not even a dent. Some paint from the swingsets is still there, though.

* The BX2200 does not have safety features such as having to be on the machine before it is started, or the PTO is engaged.
FALSE. The tractor will NOT start with the tractor in gear or with the PTO engaged. Ask my son, as he is always forgetting to take it out of gear and turn the PTO off. (I always put it in gear and activate the PTO after I shut it off as a deterrent to thieves...as they are usually too dumb to think of stuff like that). What the salesman MAY be talking about is a seat safety, where you MUST have your weight on the seat, otherwise the tractor shuts off. I believe that this safety can be a problem, and thankfully the BX does NOT have this. ON my CUB I disabled this "safety" on my second mowing. You need to be able to raise up a bit every now and then to see what you are about to anhiliate with your tractor. Especially with a FEL. This would be a major obstacle for getting work done, and you don't see them on any larger tractors either. Can you imagine having to sit on the tractor for 20 mins while your diesel warms up? This is where education and common sense comes in. If you need this safety you shouldn't have a tractor, buy a GT like the JD455.

* The Category 1 hitch is not a "true" Category 1 hitch, compared to the JD4100.
It meets minimum CAT 1 specs. The problem is that not all implements are designed for minimum standards. The JD does however handle non standard CAT1 implements better than the BX, mostly due to it's larger stance.

* Deere has more HP than advertised, because they always under-rate the published horsepower.
Prove it.

* The Yanmar engine is far superior to the Kubota engine.
HUH??? Not a chance. The Kubota engine is very well known for its reliability. The Kubota also sports what is arguably the best HST transmission made. Get on one, move it around, notice how smooth it is compared to the JD.

* The JD4100 has a much better and more useful FEL than the BX2200.
The JD does have better lift ratings. I recently looked at a 4100, though and it seemed to me that their bucket wasn't built nearly as heavy as the BX. The metal seemed noticably thinner and lighter duty. I don't remember this a year ago...could they have changed that?

* That the 4100 is built in the USA. (Their literature says the 4200-4700 are built in Georgia, and I thought I saw on another post that the 4100 is a green Yanmar - funny how the JD salespeople don't mention that!)
False. The 4100 is built by Yanmar. Examine the tag for serial number, you'll see it is made overseas. My BX on the other hand is built right here in the US. My tag says so.


THe JD costs quite a bit more that the BX, and it isn't nearly as stable on a hill. Don't get me wrong, I like the JD, for what it is, but it is not a serious competitor to the Kubota BX. It remains to be seen as to whether the "X" will be.
 
/ Bashing #29  
<font color=blue>I drove under a swing set once at a decent clip, i might add, and the entire front of the tractor pointed at the sky. After I backed up and changed my shorts, no dmagae to the ROPS at all, not even a dent. Some paint from the swingsets is still there, though.</font color=blue>

Wow!/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif That must be some sturdy swing set!!

Jeff



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/ Bashing #30  
Yup! I had anchored that thing real nice. I did bend the top bar that holds the swings into somewhat of an upside down U. I'm VERY lucky about that one...if the top of the swingset had broken, no telling what might have happened to my baby when the front came crashing down from 4 feet... As it was, I was able to back up verrrry slowly and get her front paws back on terra firma.

I did that the first time I mowed my back yard. Never did it since, I'll tell you that! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I remember to watch my clearance.
 
/ Bashing #31  
One point about safety switches

I have an old B-series, with no seat or PTO safety switches. I love it. Recently I got stuck in the mud a 1/2 mile from the house. Rather than walk back to get the jeep, and risk getting that stuck, I was able to put the 'bota in 1st 'creeper' gear, hop off, and rock the spinning tractor with a tree limb. The machine freed itself and slowly crawled out of the bog. I stood on the edge and waited for it to clear the mud, hopped on and away I went...very slick. So now I am thinking that I could mow the lawn this way - get her going in a low gear, hop off, putt a few golf balls around, catch the tractor at the far end of the lawn to turn around....just kidding.

Anyhow, any farmer will tell you that there are times when you dont want all those finicky safety switches.
 
/ Bashing
  • Thread Starter
#32  
Re: One point about safety switches

One more point I just remembered about the JD Guys bashing the BX2200. This time it's the Treadle peddle. They were pretty long winded about how awful the Treadle peddle is, and that you can't put your foot on the break at the same time - quote "unless you are growing 2 legs out of your right side". So what is the consensus on the Treadle peddle? Is it easy to use, hard to get used to, a pain in the rear? Is the 2 peddle system that JD (pardon the pun) peddles that much better?
 
/ Bashing #33  
Re: One point about safety switches

<font color=blue>about how awful the Treadle peddle is, and that you can't put your foot on the break at the same time</font color=blue>

Well, you've only got the one brake pedal, which works on both rear wheels at once, so you won't be brake-stearing. So just why would you want to use the brake and the accelerator at the same time?/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

As for the treadle peddle -- rock your foot forward, you go forward; rock your foot backward, you go backward. relax your foot, or take it off the peddle, and you stop (centers to neutral). You use the brake if you're on a slope.

Check through some of the other posts -- you'll see reference to three kinds of people: those that admit to running the BX with the brake locked; those who've driven the BX with the brake locked but won't admit it; and those who are thinking "this thing's doggin' a lot today".

Tom
 
/ Bashing #34  
Re: One point about safety switches

I can't think of many instances where I even need to use the brake. The stopping power by simply taking your foot off the pedel is much greater than I expected even when on a slope. I suppose if I had gotten a tractor equipped the other way first I would be complaining too.

Jeff


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/ Bashing #35  
Re: One point about safety switches

I used to have a cub, two pedals, one forward and one reverse. Now i have the "treadle" pedal. Took me about a week to get used to it, and now wouldn't have it any other way. Two pedals are fine as long as you dont have a lot of going back and forth, but using the FEL, it's constant motion. That "treadle" pedal sure comes in handy.
 
/ Bashing #36  
Re: One point about safety switches

I can think of many situations where I want a foot on the brake and the accelerator/direction pedal. For instance, when inching up to the side of my truck while dangling something hanging by a chain from the front end loader. I like having my foot on the brake at that moment. Can't do it if both pedals are on the same side. As for turning brakes, I never used mine that much. The locked wheel just digs in and you now own a skid stear. Tears up everything under the locked wheel. It is handy for the end of a field or a really tight turn, but I have usually been able to just back up and make a 3 or 4 point turn.

<font color=green> MossRoad </font color=green>
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<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by MossRoad on 12/12/01 07:34 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
 
/ Bashing #37  
How can Deere salesmen say they have the best product when it isn't even a John Deere product they are selling? It's a Yanmar with a different paint job. JD is more of a marketing organization than a manufacturer these days.

How can JD ever hope to compete with Kubota on value or innovation if they are selling a rebadged Yanmar at a big markup?

The same with thier snowblowers, the JD is just a rebadged Ariens.
 
/ Bashing #38  
Here, let me get in on some more bashing--what fun---the treadle pedal or boomerang pedal as I call it is actually quite handy. It does take some getting used too but most people will come to like it ---a lot. When working in close to other things like your house or car or anything you do not want to hit just keep your foot on the pedal and heel and toe it. The tractor will stop effectively--immediantly rocking back on the pedal. Normal use put your heel on the deck and the ball of your foot on the pedal and forward push down and back swing your toe under the pedal and lift up ---to really get a good push on the pedal in reverse when the hydro is under load just rotate your foot back and place the heel on the aft section and press down. It is very versatile, much more so than the two pedal arrangement.
Why is it that both Kubota dealers here are super friendly, invite you in and let you ride their tractors, treat you like one of the family and act like a bunch of good ole'farmer boys having fun with tractors, never even mention the "green" word? Go to the JD dealer here and if they even come out to talk to you the first thing out of their mouth is something like "you ought to be glad you came here instead of the Kubota dealer--those Kubotas are made in Japan ya know (this to someone who drove in with a Toyota) and realy do not compare to a real JD". It is true that JD makes some great machines--they just need to develop a competitive attitude and instill that in their dealers--talk your product and not the competitors and let the customer decide. When all this first started with me I did go to a JD dealer first, they acted like slick car salesman and rained down hellfire on Kubota--I figured with all that poison and fire I better go see what the comotion is all about--now I know.
You know what--it wasn't their tractors I did not like, they actually have some great products--it was their pompus attitude--I remembered a similar attitude when I bought my first Chevy (and my last), it is not a fond memory. J
 
/ Bashing #39  
Interesting observations JR. My experience was somewhat similiar here. The JD dealer was very derogatory when talking about Kubota. The thing that really go me though was the price difference. I know that some of you don't have the diffential that we do in our area, and probably in some areas JD might even be cheaper...but around here there were several thousand dollars difference between the colors for equivalent machinery. The JD guys refused to move and kept talking about resale value and accessability to parts and service. When I pointed out that you couldn't buy a used compact in our area of any color as they are all snapped up very quickly for good $$$....they had no response. How is "added resale value" worth $2500 more on the initial cost when all it means is I'd have to sell it for $2500 more than the used Kubota down the road to make up my money??

In any event, I think JD makes a great product. I also think Kubota, New Holland, Massey, etc do also. Please don't suggest to me that one is worth $2500 more just because it is green, or orange if that was the situation.

Kevin
 
/ Bashing #40  
HERE IS MY ONLY EXPERIENCE WITH A DEERE DEALER. 22 YEARS AGO MY FATHER WANTED TO BUY HIS FIRST TRACTOR. WENT TO A DEERE DEALER AND FOUND ONE HE LIKED, ASKED TO TRY IT OUT FOR A FEW DAYS. DEERE DEALER STATED DO NOT DEMO TRACTORS. WE THEN WENT TO KUBOTA DEALER AND NEXT DAY HAD A DEMO B7100. KUBOTA DEALER LET US USE IT FOR A WEEK. 8 KUBOTAS LATER WE STILL TELL THIS STORY.
 

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