Basement?? Panelized, Poured, ICF, ???

[Prefect]

I'm getting ready to build a new house. It's a good sized place and will be stuck on the side of a hill. I'm trying to decide what kind of foundation I should go with. I was reading a recent post about Superior Walls, I did some research and asked them some questions but they havent gotten back to me yet. First of all, here is the house I'm going to build. You have to scroll down to see the floor plan.

I'm guessing that since the basement area is the same as the main floor, it is shaped the same. So, I'm wondering if the Superior wall or any other pannelized basement wall system would work for this application and work very well. That's quite a bit of house sitting on those walls.

Also, how does the pannel wall cost compare to a traditional poured foundation.

 

[boustany]

You mentioned ICF.

My whole house is ICF, which is ok, but beware of workmanship (its hard to adjust concrete once it sets up).

In general, there are lots of 'special' issue which crop up when you move beyond standard construction (poured concrete or block & stick framing). Things like electrical, plumbing, window finish and so on, tend to be much more work.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

I'm in the early planning stages for a new home and am sold on the idea of ICF's for the basement. I don't have the courage to go with it for the entire structure. I'm leaning toward ISP's for the above ground floors. While it's not as forgiving as traditional stick construction it's WAY more forgiving than concrete. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[deere_x475guy]

Perfect, I just recieved my Superior Wall system and I can say that not only am I impressed with it but all my neighbors were also. My log home is much smaller than your grand home so I can't tell you how long it would take to set yours but mine was up in 4 hours and my builder was able to start construction immediately. With Superior Walls you are getting a precast system. The same tecnology that is used on highway bridges and other structures of high stress. The concrete is poured under a controlled enviorment to ensure you are getting 5000 psi concrete. Your normal poured wall or tip up will be 3500 at best. There are many benefits to this system and thats why I chose to go with it. The 15 year guarantee of no leaks is a real plus. I have yet to see a concrete poured wall that did not crack and have the potential of leakage. Good luck in what ever you chose to go with. If this is your first built home the best advise I can offer is to go slowly, research everything and be patient.

Best of luck
Bob

 

[Prefect]

I'm definately one to research things and take my time ordinarily. I hadn't really thought of anything other than ICF or traditional form foundation until reading on this site. I have since contacted Superior twice without any response from them. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with any other manufacturer/brand.

 

[Gatorboy]

Just to let everyone who is interested know, here is the link to Superior Wall Systems.

 

[deere_x475guy]

Perfect, here is the #1-800-452-9255 to the main headquarters. Not sure if you were trying to contact a franchised dealer before. I have never had a problem contacting them.

Best of luck....

 

[_RaT_]

Here's a company that builds are arguably the best ICF systems in the world. Homes made of ICF have very strong concrete as the cure rate is very slow since the mositure is trapped and insulated. Short of concrete cured underwater, there is almost no better way to cure it. I took a class with these guys and found Murray, one of the owners and the teacher an incredibly interesting fella that prior to starting Nudura, built homes out of Blue Maxx or ARXX. Prior to that it was all stick frame. It is really interesting to see and know why ICF is so superior to stick frame. I have been building since 1972 as a freshman in high school. All I ever did was stick framing, latter in commercial work I did tiltup structures and then snap tie walls. I have seen nothing like ICF. The company is Nudura, I think it is nudura.com

 

[PBMAX]

They have been building up to 3 story apartments in Japan out of pre-poured conrete for a while now and they are supposed to be exceptional. If I could have I would deffinitly had cinder block or concrete walls up to the rafters. course if I had my way there probabaly would not be any windows as I'm part Bat according to the wife...I like the dark my basment has only 2 light enrty points. The garage door and there french doors that will be the ouside entry to the room...

I aslo whish I had known about I-joist, Laminated ibeams made of wood that eliminate the need for steel support post under the main level. Had I known, I would not now be working around the poles in my basement... Giving me more flexablity on the room's configuration(s)....

Best of luck on with the new place.... looks like it will be great....

 

[Varmintmist]

I did superior walls in my home. I like them so far, easy to work with ie running wire, insulating, pipeing. I would reccomend them at this point. On one like yours it will take a little while to pour all of the walls. I did a ranch so basicly mine was a box. I think it figured at 14$ a linear foot. For my place it was around 3K more than block and 3K less than ICF. If I was farther north there is no doubt in my mind that the poured in the insulating block is the way to go. Just for the R value.

 

[GaryM]

My house is built with Arxx ICFs for the foundation and Enercept SIPs for the above ground walls. Very happy with both. The nice thing about the ICFs is the ability to easly make the basement walls as high as you wish. My BIL wanted 9' basement walls and had a hard time finding someone with forms that size. I'm sure Superior Walls come in any hight you want also.

Your floor plan looks as though it has quite a few angles and jogs. This would certainly be easy to do with an ICF system. You also end up with walls that are insulated inside and out.

Running wire in an ICF wall is easy. Just run a router with a 3/4" straight bit where you want the wire. Some builders use an electric chainsaw to make wire channels.

A neighbor down the road used the Superior wall system and there is no footing. Only compacted gravel. I'm not comfortable with that myself, but I guess it's OK.

Very happy with the SIPs too. Went together well and no problems.

 

[Prefect]

I'm in the planning and research phase right now. I haven't broken ground yet. I'm probably going to do that in the spring as I still have to finish the remodel on my current house and sell it first.

I do appreciate all the info on these wall systems.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

Gary,

I can not tell you how happy I am to read about how happy you are with the combination of systems I've been considering. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The idea of building a deeper basement and taller above ground walls is very appealing to me. I want a 9' finished ceiling in the basement which will probably entail going with a 10' basement wall. I know I'm going to get hosed buying 7' doors instead of the standard 6'-8" doors but it's worth it to me not to have to duck in my own house. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[GaryM]

Our ceilings in the finished basement are 8' 7". Could have been 9' but we used a truss type floor joist system rather than the engineered I beams. I believe the trusses are slightly deeper than the I beams. But using the trusses allows all the water, electric, and HVAC lines to run in the floor joists without any drilling or cutting required. All of our lower level is finished except for the utility room. So the ceilings are flat with no need for boxing in utility chases. Can't tell the difference between up stairs or downstairs.

A pointer for SIPs that my contractor ignored: Be sure to rip the sill plates for the SIPs to the required size. Mine were supposed to be 2x6. The panels have a 5 1/2" opening in the bottom for the 2x6. But using PT lumber, the 5 1/2" dimension is sometimes oversize. The panels were hard to slide into position. If he had ripped the lumber to correct size this would have made the assembly easier.

If you want to see pictures of our project, look here: http://www.w0gom.net/

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

Gary,

Thanks for the link and for the tip. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Dirtrich]

I'm looking into putting a walkout/driveout basement underneath a 30x40 polebarn effectively doubling the storage capacity. Superior Walls here in NJ contacted me immediately and gave me a rough quote of $80/LF for their 10' walls so I figure about $12k plus the cost of a flooring system such as Spancrete.

 

[moeh1]

I went with Superior 7 years ago -happy as can be still today. They were rather close by with their plant and at the time were very helpful and highly competitive with pricing. I dislike block, poured is very expensive here, and after 6 months of trying, I couldn't locate any ICF distributor/contractor,etc. so it was good that I was interested in Superior. Part of the crew showed up at 6 am to compact the stone, panels showed up at 8:30, by noon they were wishing me well and pulling out of the driveway.
You need to look at the local situation - price and support infrastructure that is nearby for each option. That will give you the most bang for the buck.
Good Luck,

 

[Paddy]

Personaly, fancy concrete wall systems don't start to show thier real value until you get above the ground. I don't like the "wall panel" concept. I want a monolithic pour, no joints ever 10 to 20 feet. Panel systems have high Shipping costs. On their web site, no footers=> No thanks! I saw on another post where they mention poured concrete wall cracking. If the proper footing and R-bar is used, it will take heavy equipment to crack the wall. There is no comparible strength wall system to a concrete wall. Go look at a parking garage.

I too am getting ready to build on a hill. I have looked at many concrete systems. Do you want the best thermal system? Easy on the ele and plumbing install? Use local labor and contractors? They are very key to your choice. I was set on the T-Mass concept, Concrete/Foam/Concrete. From a thermal point of view, better than ICF, SIPs and wood frame comstruction. Finding a contractor was hopeless. Even though it a simple system, inserting foam between standard forms, I could not find any contrator willing to take the time/chance. All utilities also had to be run in advance. ICFs were starting to look better. DIY or any contractor with a level can build with them. The wife and I attended the "World of Concrete" exposition out in Vegas two weeks ago. In the end Fox blocks looks like the best buy. This company is the largest ICF manufacture, making many brands for other lables. Just recently, they started marketing their own brand. Prices are listed on their web site unlike most others, less than $3.00 a sq-ft. First load is free delivery, second load is $1 per block.

We are going to build with nearly 100% concrete. Two stories on a bacement and concrete floors and roof. The floor systems I had first chosen was the Insul-Deck/Lite deck concept. Basicly a foam form that creats beams and deck all in one pour. The issue I saw was again, the diffaculty in running ele/plumbing/heating-cooling. I have settled on Hambro floor system. Steel truss that forms a composite concrete/steel floor joist. Their sales guys state $9 per sq-ft labor and material. This will be good for the radient heat. Also, Hambro has spans up the 33' !

Keep researching and good luck.