Ballasts / Rear weight information

[trctrman]

Just got some good info from a fella at MF about how to ballast my tractor (MF1533 w/1525 ldr) and why loading the tires may not be the best way to ballast the load (mine are loaded). I've cut & pasted our correspondence:
_________________________________________________________________
Hi,

I have a MF 1533 w/1525 FEL and need to know how to properly ballast the tractor to do some rock work. My owners/operators manual doesn't go into any detail on the matter & I have searched all over but can find no information or instructions. Can you send me this information?

Thank you,
Brandon
_________________________________________________________________

Brandon,
The goal for proper ballasting is to maintain a minimum of 25% weight on your rear axle. This is really only possible to quantity if you have access to scales. Based on a 1533 platform tractor you will need around 800 lbs in a 3 point weight box to get to this balance. Once you get there you would need to verify the weight distribution on a scale since tire options, operator's weight and many other variables come into this calculation. My advice is to use a 3 point weight box and you could contact a Massey Ferguson dealer and look into one offered thru them such as catalogue number 7541502M which has a 9 cubic foot capacity which when filled is about 900 lbs. The proper way to check your weight distribution is as follows.

* Install 3pt weight box and fill to capacity.
* Load bucket.
* Drive onto scale and raise loader so bucket pin is hood high.
* Record gross weight.
* Drive front tires off scale and record rear axle weight.
* Rear axle weight is to be at least 25% of gross weight.
* If necessary, remove weight from weight box and check new gross & rear weight for 25%.

Thanks,
Thomas Beason
Marketing Specialist
Compact & Commercial Equipment
Livestock, Dairy & Rural Lifestyle Marketing, N.A.
Thomas.Beason@agcocorp.com
_________________________________________________________________
Thanks for the info.

I loaded my rear tires which put about an extra 800 pounds or so on the rear of the tractor.

I値l take the tractor down to the quarry and weigh it on the scales like you said and see how close I am.

I just want do everything possible to keep from tearing it up. They ought to put that info in the loader manual.

Thanks again,

Brandon
_________________________________________________________________
Brandon,

I understand that most people prefer loading tires over using a 3 point weight box but let me give you some reasons why a weight box is the best option.

By using a weight box you use your rear axle as a pivot point to actually reduce the weight on your front axle. You also get more weight advantage using a weight box because you are increasing your wheel base. Use the scales but you may have to use 3 point weight to achieve proper balance and stay inside axle capacities which are listed in your tractor痴 op manual.

Thanks,

Thomas Beason

Marketing Specialist
Compact & Commercial Equipment
Livestock, Dairy & Rural Lifestyle Marketing, N.A.
Thomas.Beason@agcocorp.com
(770)232-8048 Office
(770)813-6040 Fax
(770)778-7358 Cell

 

[Charlesaf3]

I don't think that's so much anti-loading tires as pointing out that both is helpful, but they hit different things. To my mind loading tires is to improve traction and stop from falling over sideways (lower c of g). I always have a heavy implement on the back for loader work as well.

By which of course I'm not disagreeing with you - don't want to come across that way - just pointing out the other benefits of tire loading.

 

[LD1]

Hi all. Im new to the website (been lurking for about a year) but not new to tractors as I have been around them for years. So I thought I would share my opinion. I think that loading tires is the best way to ballast a tractor, but as he pointed out, it might not be enough and you still may need the weight box.

The advantage to loading the tires is that it is stress free weight to the tractor. What I mean is loading the tires doesn't put any more weight on the axles, bearings, etc. It also doesn't add any weight to stress to the 3ph links, arms, lift cylinder, etc.

 

[RoyJackson]

In my (limited) experience, loading the tires is great to aid in tractor stability. However, loaded tires do not provide exceptional traction (compared to adding rear ballast).
Adding rear ballast on the 3PH markedly increases traction (using a ballast box or heavy implement).

 

[RWolf]

Good points for each but it will depend on the job at hand. If I'm doing FEL work I don't need any additional ballast "if" I'm doing dirt work. Now this last weekend I was doing dirt work with the FEL "and" my boxblade. First my boxblade is heavy, most likely in the range of about 800lbs. I was using the blade to break up the soil before using the FEL to move it out of the way. With the scarifiers down all the way I would start scraping and as the blade would start to fill I'd loose traction. In this case I could have used the extra weight of loaded tires. Got the job done but in "this" case adding extra weight on the 3pt would not have helped me any. In my manual it talks about ballast and basically tells me that ballast to the job. It even gives some simple diagrams/pictures on how to tell if your under ballasted or over ballasted.

 

[wolc123]

With few exceptions, such as a homeowner who also uses the tractor to mow his lawn, or someone who hauls the tractor on a trailer of marginal capacity, any loader tractor should have loaded rear tires. In fact, many dealers will not sell a loader tractor without loading the rears. A balast box or heavy implement is nice in theory, but there is no guarantee that it will always be used. Also, stuff hanging off the back reduces the tractor's ability to get into tight spaces which loaded tires do not. Most compact tractors sold today have buckets of small enough capacity, that loaded rears alone provide sufficient rear ballast. Wheel weights are a viable option but cost more and do not provide as much stability on inclines because a partial liquid fill always lowers the CG vs fixed weights (liquid goes to the bottom, air to the top).

 

[hdbikercouple]

did I read this right? min.of 25% weight on back tires with loader full. sorry my front tires would not take that. I would think it would be the other way around. when i get a chance I'm going to take everything off my tractor and take it to my neighours scale and see what ratio the plain tractor has.

 

[Nuru]

Let us know what you find out. That would be interesting to know what you got.

 

[257NH]

Welcome to TBN LD1.
I use both,loaded rears (rim gaurd)Which is good but alone is not safe enough for serious lifting,I got air under a rear tire that way bucketing clay loam into a one ton dump.
On the way home that day I picked up a ballast box.I prefer it over an implement because of the compactness of it.I just removed all the crushed stone out of it and cut up 400 pounds of railroad track then put the crushed stone back in,MUCH better now.What people have to realise is the enormous multiplication of down force on the loader arms when shuttling material and you have to stop fast or hit a depression going down hill and on and on etc etc.That same multiplication also translates to greater force on the front axle,which is why I do both.Even if loaded rears were enough I would always use a counter weight for the purpose of removing some stress off the front axle.

 

[hazmat]

It's all about the physics - weight aft of the rear axle "counts" more because it adds to the rear axle weight & takes off the front.

Here's an old thread with the science behind it - http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/87212-tractor-ballasting-weight-distribution-free.html?highlight=free

 

[TomOfTarsus]

Hello,

I've actually e-mailed New Holland because I'd like to know about where the CG of my tractor is, both vertically and axially (i.e. % of wheelbase). I don't have access to scales and have some really steep ground to work on. I figure if I have the information for the tractor, I can get a better idea of how to ballast.

& Thanks, hazmat, for the link to the old thread. Someone remarked that the math is tough, but as I'm sure you know, it really isn't. I was calculating CG's before I got out of high school, and I'm no Einstein. More important is that you have good information.

I'm trying to think through a rather scary way to figure out how high my CG is from the ground. If I tip the tractor, say in a garage or somewhere safe, until it's just on the verge of tipping (i.e balanced on two wheels), the CG of the tractor is obviously above this point. Now I need the angle the axle makes with the ground, and I'm thinking use a digital camera or something to keep me from having to mess around under the machine. To be complete, of course, I'd need to tip it both left and right (just in case it's a little off center as well).

Tangential to the thread (my apologies), but I cant figure out how much I'm lowering my CG without knowing where it is in the first place.

 

[LD1]

If anyone out there has a set of scales and has the ability to measure the weight of one axle at a time, and one side at a time, you can find the horizontal (sideways, and lengthways) position of the cg. In order to find the vertial position, you have to have the ability to lift one axle at least 24 inches, and set it back down on the scale. The idea is knowing the level weight of both axles, the level and raised wheel base, and recording how much weight is transfered when you raise one end 24 inches, and plugging it into the formulas. If anyone is set up to measure this, let me know and i'll give more details.

 

[pitt_md]

With few exceptions, such as a homeowner who also uses the tractor to mow his lawn, or someone who hauls the tractor on a trailer of marginal capacity, any loader tractor should have loaded rear tires. In fact, many dealers will not sell a loader tractor without loading the rears. A balast box or heavy implement is nice in theory, but there is no guarantee that it will always be used. Also, stuff hanging off the back reduces the tractor's ability to get into tight spaces which loaded tires do not. Most compact tractors sold today have buckets of small enough capacity, that loaded rears alone provide sufficient rear ballast. Wheel weights are a viable option but cost more and do not provide as much stability on inclines because a partial liquid fill always lowers the CG vs fixed weights (liquid goes to the bottom, air to the top).

When I bought my tractor the dealer really didn't want to load the tires. He cited several problems with loaded tires like causing rim problems, I don't remember all of the details.

One of my first real jobs was working at a tire dealer and going out to fix tractor tires in the field. Almost all of them were loaded with some kind of chloride soloution that was nasty to work with. Growing up on the farm all of our tractors had loaded tires. Not sure what was up with the dealer I bought mine from

 

[daTeacha]

My dealer advised it but didn't push it at all. I told him I had a 900 lb rear weight and he was content. It was more of a discussion between two guys over what to do with the tractor than it was him saying I really needed to get the tires loaded or they wouldn't be responsible for my safety. This family has been selling tractors in all sizes for over 40 years, so apparently it works for them.

 

[canoetrpr]

My dealer never said anything about loaded tires or ballast when I bought the tractor. I was a newbie. Found out that I needed ballast from TBN. Before delivery I asked about getting the tires loaded and he quoted me way too much... so I had him include a ballast box with the delivery.

About a year in, I started doing some digging for a project and realized that that the weight I had on the 3PT (~600 lb) was no where near enough. Not a pleasant feeling when your rear comes off the ground.

Around here no one has ever heard of loading with RimGuard. I let a local tire guy do the loading and he loaded with CaCl2 with tubes for a decent price.

I can't believe the difference in stability (that was last summer that I got this done)!. If I'm lifting something particularly heavy I tack on the ballast box as well. Lifted my new boxblade out of the truck it was delivered in - 700 or so lb and it was lifted high. Tractor lifted it like it was nothing.

I don't think that I will ever not have tires loaded. Maybe if I consistently had something like a heavy backhoe installed - I might consider it. Next time around though I would hope that RimGuard may have gotten a bit more popular around here so I could choose that. Realistically though, every body and his grandpa has been loading with CaCl2 around here - and often without tubes and there is no epidemic of rusted rims around here. Tire guy who loaded my tires advised me to proactively replace my valve stems in about 8 to 10 years to ensure that no leaks develop around there.

 

[pitt_md]

"Around here no one has ever heard of loading with RimGuard. I let a local tire guy do the loading and he loaded with CaCl2 with tubes for a decent price."

I was reading the specs for RimGuard and its only good to -35. Here in Minnesota we don't have many days in the -40 range but they do happen a couple times a year. Maybe thats why in some places its not common.

 

[canoetrpr]

I'm pretty sure it would be just fine temp wise. We get no colder than you in Minnesota. New things just take time before they percolate up north through the border.

I know a Mahindra dealer up here who is thinking about becoming the distributer for RimGuard. Bet it will be up here and common in a few years.

 

[EMS503]

I have a GC2300. I need to add weight to the rear as it is light when I load the fel. I use the tractor to mow my lawn I was told loaded tires will mess up the lawn (I have turf tires). Just wondering if I should load the rear tires or find an implement for the rear to add the weight.

 

[n8586m]

EMS, I have a kubota B2620 with FEL, turf tires and a mid mower. I tried it without loading the tires but caused way too much damage to the grass because of spinning the tires. I had them loaded with RimGuard, 460#s for $144. No more spinning and does not damage the lawn unless I turn too sharp, which was also a problem when they weren't loaded.

 

[plowking]

I just got a M/F1531 at Northwood Power Equipment. They called me and loaded the tires with some biodegradeable material when they were working installing the backhoe. Hoe will be on most of time,except for york rake or rear blade. Landscapers here will also use some pulp or other material,so if they have a flat,the chemicals won't spill and ruin a customer's lawn. plowking