Dealer Bad Internet Dealer Experience

   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #1  

rudedog

New member
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
7
I’m having a rather poor experience buying a NH from one of the high visibility “Internet Dealers”. The issues are not resolved yet and communications with the dealer have gone from cooperative to poor to non-existent. Apparently they think if they just ignore me I’ll go away. Wrong.

This is not meant as an indictment of all NH dealers doing business over the Internet. I understand Corriher to have a very good reputation and in hindsight I should have gone with them. Unfortunately I chose to do business with the “other guys” and that turned out to be a big mistake.

I purchased a TC55DA with 18LA FEL and 759C hoe on 12/28/04. All items were supposedly in stock. For starters, the shipment was 3 weeks later than they said it would be. The delivery date would have been fine, but the delay was not communicated. I had been paying interest to NH Credit for almost a month and was starting to wonder if I was going to get a tractor at all. So communications from the dealer started out on a poor footing.

Upon receiving the tractor, here are the issues I discovered within 24 hours of delivery:

Hydraulic fluid was 3 gallons low (capacity is 11 gallons). The oil level was well over an inch below the dipstick.

At first I was told they would ship me replacement NH 134G hydraulic oil. Then they said there were shipping restrictions on hydraulic fluid and they offered to send me a check instead (for their cost on the oil, not my cost). I’ve received nothing.

There are multiple hydraulic leaks. Silly me, I expected a new tractor to be pretty much leak free. Two of the leaks were rather obvious and the sources have been identified. But there are at least 2-3 more I still need to troubleshoot.

There was a fitting for the 18LA under the operator platform that was only “finger tight”. This was dripping oil in a steady stream when the FEL was operated. Did anyone at the dealer check to see a trail of oil left under this tractor? Apparently not.

Another leak is due to a manufacturing defect in a hard line on the 18LA. The dealer should have found it if they had checked for leaks. But they didn’t. And they’ve backed away from providing a replacement part under warranty.

In addition to the leaks, the following items where (and still are) missing:

SMV sign not provided. Dealer checklist says it was included.
Only one key provided. These tractors come with two keys.
Bucket level indicator missing from 18LA.
12” bucket for hoe paid for but not received.

I was told several times that these items would be sent. So far, nothing received.

The backhoe was shipped without the swing and boom lock pins in place. They lock pins were present in their storage positions, but not in place. There is a pretty good divit (chunk of metal gone) in the lower boom. So who knows what the boom was doing during transport? But when the dealer loads a tractor for a 3,000+ mile trip, you’d think they could at least install the boom and swing lock pins in the backhoe.

Bottom line...this dealer in particular does shoddy installation work (18LA), doesn’t check for obvious leaks, doesn’t prepare the tractor properly for shipment (hoe lock pins), and doesn’t ship everything that is paid for and supposed to come with the tractor.

To top it off, there is no service after the sale. Once they have your money, they don’t want to hear from you.

My suggestions to would be Internet buyers:

Choose the more reputable dealer (Corriher)

Make at least some of your purchase (down payment, deposit, etc.) by credit card. That way you can dispute the charge with your credit card company should all items not be provided.

Don’t assume that a new tractor is defect free, especially in the case of dealer installed equipment (hoe, FEL, etc).

Inspect for leaks, oil levels, all parts included, boom lock pins in place, etc. before unloading the tractor. If you see such issues, refuse the shipment!

If there’s interest, I’ll be glad to post further updates as this situation plays out.
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #2  
Well.. at least it is a big '3' unit. If nothing else you may be able to 'begrudgingly' get warranty service out of a local dealer.. though you may need corporate help to do this.. and that's where i would start.. call NH corporate.

If all is as wrong as you said, and the dealer is being a problem... hopefully someone higher up can get the ball rolling for you.

If not.. perhaps there are legal measures you can take.. especially if this was transported / sold across a state line.

Soundguy
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Good advice Soundguy. NH Corporate is my next step.

Anyone have a suggested name and/or number to start with?

I'm prepared to go as far up the management chain as I need to for resolution. This dealer should not be allowed to operate this way.
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #4  
New Holland Customer Service 1-888-290-7377. I have called them twice. They bent over backwards to help me. When you call have your tractor serial number handy.

Good Luck !
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #5  
When my dealer turned a deaf ear to me on a battery issue I contacted NH at:

Service Department
New Holland North America Inc.
500 Diller Avenue
New Holland, PA 17557
717-355-1121

I would recommend a registered letter rather than a simple phone call. Document everything when there is a problem.

Good luck to you.
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #6  
I hate to say it and I hope you get all your problems resolved, but this is why I always buy from my local dealer even when I could save a few thousand from NC. I need my tractors when I need them and my local dealer will loan me a machine if I'm in a bind at no charge. I've had mechanics out in the rain in my fields late at night a few times when something failed. These services are priceless. The same dealer who provides these services to me (a large NH/Kubota dealer), said that if he services internet bought tractors at all, it will be when he gets to them. To provide this level of service he must charge more. He eats much of the cost of these services.

Andy
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Hi Andy,

Thanks for your well wishes and some good points. I did give considerable thought to the Internet vs. local dealer question before buying. In hindsight, I did not give enough thought to which Internet dealer to do business with.

It sounds like you have a great relationship with your local dealer. With multiple tractors, you are an important customer to them. As it should be. I'm just a farmer wannabe guy that prefers to do my own service work where I can and buying one tractor that hopefully will last me 20+ years.

Local vs. Internet dealer is part of the issue. I thought I was pretty much buying a commodity item, but I was wrong about that. I thought buying NH rather than an off-brand would assure no problems. Wrong about that too. I suppose if it was just the tractor with no extra dealer installed stuff, it would matter a little less what dealer I bought it from. But with dealer installed equipment, the service factor is more important than I thought.

Why didn't I go with the local dealer? First, they didn't impress me. I doubt seriously I would get the kind of field service, loaner tractor, etc. from them that you're getting from your guy. I can't imagine most NH dealers giving that level of service to small one tractor customers like me.

Second, we were about $4,300 apart on pricing for my package. The local economy and home equity are way up in my area and dealers for a variety of items are holding out for "gold-plated" prices. I can do a lot of self-servicing for that kind of money.

But the tradeoff should not be that for that savings you get a leaky tractor with parts missing. NH Corporate should assure that through a dealer quality program. Dealers should be required to maintain certain standards or be gone as a NH dealer, regardless of who they sell to.

Out of the things that are wrong with my tractor, there is really no excuse. A reputable dealer, Internet or local, can and should check for leaks, properly prepare for transport, not have missing parts, etc. My problems were due to carelessness and bad communication on the part of this particular dealer, not necessarily due to the Internet business model.

Internet or local, I still view dealer reputation as more important than distance. I would consider Internet purchasing again (from Corriher). But I wouldn't go near the other crew in NC again with a ten foot pole. They don't deserve to represent the NH brand.

Thank goodness for these forums so others can learn from my mistake.
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #8  
Where are you located? If you're 3000 miles away from NC, I'm assuming you're in California.

I found it very difficult to find a local dealer that had a good sales department (or any selection of tractors), so I went out-of-state when I needed to purchase. The price couldn't be beat, either.

So far, I haven't had any reason to send the tractor to a dealer for service, but I have built a relationship with a reasonably local NH service department that I would trust to do the work. They've assured me that they would have no problem working on the tractor even if it weren't purchased through them - so if you are in the San Jose area, I can give you a good service reference if you'd like. The only downside is that they charge a couple hundred bucks to pick up the tractor from local areas, but that's a reasonable thing to pay for.
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #9  
Hey Andy coulda, shoulda, woulda. What about the folks like me, and there are more than a few of us here that were basically given treatment by the local dealers like we were third generation step-children pleaaaase! Don't beat up on the guy, he's already having problems even without your help. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

OK I took a drink of water and caught my breath I'm through the rant, thanks.

It really doesn't matter how much you spend on your tractor, yes you could have spent that additional 4 grand and forked it over to the local boys, they would have loved to have it. But the extra money and the fact that you bought locally still does not guarantee that you will get the local service that you feel that you are entitled to, and that I can guarantee you.

Dealers are people just like you and I, some are better and some are worse so don't buy into that scenario that if you buy local you'll live happily ever after. It just isn't so in every case .

Take the money that you saved, contact New Holland for assistance, and let NH assist you in finding a local dealer for service. You're still way ahead of the game.
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #10  
Rude Dog,
I can understand your frustration with your situation but that is unfortantly one of the risks with buying such a complex (hoses, welds, etc.) machine over the net.

As a NH dealer in NJ I often have people throwing the NC prices in my face.
There are major differences in the cost of doing business in NJ (right outside of NYC) and the back country of NC. (labor, taxes, etc.)
I have to charge more for my equipment because I have to back it up after the sale. When issues like this arise, the value of a local dealership becomes evedent.
I provide my customers with loaner units when needed, send out our road mechanics day or night to assist my customers. If our parts dept does not have a part that is needed in stock, I will remove it from a new inventory unit to get my customer up and running. All these services cost money.

These are the services that your paying for when you deal with the local guy that appreciates your business.

Your long distance dealer is not too concerned with your happiness because he made minimal profit on this tractor and your not going to be adding any to your fleet. I'm sure they do not care how disappointed you are. They know that no matter how you bad mouth them here, people will still call for the cheap prices. Remember, you get what you pay for. You did not pay for quality service and you did not recieve it.

Your a hit and run customer in their eyes.

I understand how had all of us work for our money. I always shop for the best deal weather I'm buying a new BBQ or pickup truck. The cheapest price is not alway the best deal.

You saved a few thousand dollars but are you really enjoying the "new tractor experience"?
I'm sure your aggrivated enough to kick the cat.

I'm sure you could have negotiated a "fair" deal with your local NH guy by showing him the out of state quotes. No dealer is going to let a serious prospect walk away.

My reccomendation, introduce yourself to your local dealer, explain the situation, purchase an implement or an exented warranty, (spend a few bucks to show good faith) and I'm sure they will treat you as one of the own customers.

Best of luck to you
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #11  
WARRENJ . . . not to pick apart your post to much, because that is not my intent, BUT . . . on a good day I can't even pretend to be a farmer or even a farmer wanna-be. When I pull in the dealer lot in a fancy european convertible and stride in wearing a fancy Swiss watch, I sure don't look like the typical tractor owner. All that said, I won't pay a big premium to buy a tractor from you and I will expect you to earn my business, regardless of what your labor costs, property taxes or other local issues are.

I purchased a NH almost 2 years ago. I priced other brands. I priced on the internet. I priced locally. I told my local dealer he was too high and I told him by how much. I had never set foot in his shop, I had never even met the guy. I did it on the phone. I told him what I wanted, I told him what I expected. I was not rude, but I was not going to give in either. My local dealer is in the shadow of Chicago, probably not much different than your proximity to NYC. Not only did my local dealer bring in a tractor for me to look at, he ordered it with no obligation for me to buy it, and he spec'd it to my wish list, and then he matched the lowest price I got.

Since I made that purchase I have purchased 3 other implements from this same dealer. In each case I called him and asked for a price. In the first case he was high, but came down. Not only did he come down, he ended up being the lowest price I found. Then he fitted it to a similar model NH on his lot to adjust everything. Then he delivered it to me (no delivery charge). On the next 2 purchases I called again. Right off the bat he was the low price, beating the big internet dealership by a wide margin, installing the implements (including the MMM), and picking up and deliverying my tractor (again free of charge).

I am NOT a big profit center for that dealership. But they treat me very very well. I am honest with them. They are a supurb dealership. But I would have purchased a different brand in a heartbeat if they didn't offer me a good price. And I do own a Kubota and a Ventrac and a Cub Cadet, and I have purchased 4 other Cub Cadets and given them as gifts. I've had a 11+ year relationship with the Kubota/Cub Cadet store that is only 5 miles away, and I continue to be on a first name basis with the owner . . . but when he was out of town and his sales rep wouldn't deal, that was when the door opened for N.H.

You see, I like local service, but I won't pay above market prices for it. My customers don't care if I have a fancy office or sit in an office with bare walls and use and upturned cardboard box for a desk . . . what they care about is that I give them LOW PRICES and GOOD SERVICE and if I don't do it, then I have competitors breathing down my neck that will do it! I practice what I preach in my own business. I expect nothing less from my tractor dealer.

And I honestly think that if dealerships today think they can charge more than their competition then I think they will have long term survival issues. Let's be real honest here folks. A bright blue N.H. tractor is not all that much different than a bright red Mahindra and that is not too much different than a shiny green John Deere when we are talking about mowing lawns, or scooping up piles of dirt on our little 2, and 5 and 10 acres patches of heaven. Maybe there is a big difference between the real farm tractors, but under 50hp, I think most of the quality machines are just about equal and Kioti & Mahindra are going to kick some NH/Case/Kubota/Deere butt if the dealerships don't realize that those other brands are making very good machines. And dealerships that try to push high prices JUST BECAUSE there are few local competitors, or JUST BECAUSE they are the only one of that brand in town, or JUST BECAUSE of 10 other reasons, better take a serious look at their business model and figure out how to make their profit by cutting non-essential costs while keeping their service high.
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #12  
Bob you said that very, very well indeed........
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #13  
Bob,
I do not ask my customers to pay a premium to do business with our dealership. We earn they business every day by providing quality products at <font color="blue"> </font> prices and exceeding their expectations.
I do not expect customers to pay above market price for the equipment I sell but every market has a different price.
I do not set my sale price based on what brand car my customers drive or the quality of the watch on their wrist. I treat everybody equally and truly apprciate when they purchase their equipment from me.

You did exactly what I said in my earlier post, you gave your local guy a chance by letting him meet or beat your other quotes.

The bottom line is a customer has to be comfortable with their purchasing decision wether it is buying from their local guy and building a relationship or buy based solely on price and dealing with anything that may arise later.
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #14  
Where do you sign up for Bob's gift list? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #18  
Sadly, the grass isn't any greener on the local level either. At least in my neck of the woods. I recently bought my 2nd NH. The first one...I found the dealer on the internet, but actually made the deal by going there(2hrs+ away). Other than a few warranty issues that NH allowed me to do myself, all was well.

Second time around, I went local and heeded what many here advocate so much about. Sadly, I got burned. Not once, but a few times. All related to the repair/trade in of the 1st one to buying the 2nd. If interested, see the thread in NH's other forum..."Splitting a TC24DA" for my current problem. The rest of the story I posted about a month or 2 ago...."Dealer service, what would you have done"

So don't feel left alone. I've read many other horror stories here and feel bad for each one of them. The real issue here is just greed or lack of professionalism by some dealers IMO

I'd be interested in following your situation, so continue to post updates.
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience #19  
brad_oatley . . . I don't think Messick's is one of those who sells cross country, but I do know that Messick's sells in a large region that covers part of several states. My local dealer (DeJong's Equipment, Beecher, IL) is also a multi-state dealership and from what I can tell sells across a fairly large footprint of land. But they seem to do it by having sales reps who are responsible for specific territories, they seem to send their service trucks far and wide across the area, they (like I have been led to believe Neil does) deliver what they sell on their own trucks and they also service what they sell. There are also very few New Holland dealers near me, so each dealer must cover a large area. I do not believe that this type of activity is what New Holland opposes, in fact it is my understanding that New Holland wants dealers to act this way.

WARRENNJ, I certainly did not mean to attack you or your dealership, but I did go off on a bit of a rant there. I can be somewhat of a loudmouth (just occasionally, usually I am very quiet and reserved /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ). Anyway my point was not so much directed at your dealership but at all dealerships and at the changing business climate that we all -no matter what business we are in- must learn to adapt to. The lowest cost, and yet simultaneously highest service, supplier of any good will be the dominant player in the market. I do not ever go to Wal-Mart (well OK maybe 1 or 2 times a year if I get told to go their by the lovely Mrs_Bob) but obviously LOTS of other people go there. They provide a wide selection of goods that many people want, and they provide it at a very low price. Me, I guess they don't provide what I want, but I am not the normal shopper. I'm willing to pay for help when I don't know what I need (like for clothes) but I'm in the process of having an anniversary ring made up for the lovely Mrs_Bob and from what I can tell, the diamond business is the biggest rip off racket going. Guess what, I've turned to the internet. I never thought I'd even consider buying a large diamond over the internet. I never thought I'd ever have a ring custom made for anyone. But after talking to some of the hucksters at the finest local jewelers, I have to tell you, that there is a market for internet diamond sales! The difference I see between tractors and diamonds is that once the ring is made, there is no follow up service needed. A tractor needs follow up service. So for me, I want a local shop. But I don't want a local shop that expects me to pay more. And I don't buy the arguement that there should be regional pricing. Take a look at cars . . . a Ford Taurus costs the same in NYC or Chicago or L.A or for that matter Lowell, Indiana or Keokuck, Iowa. I think the arguement that regional or local prices for some tractors should be higher is just an excuse for a dealership to charge more than it should, and will ultimately lead to lower sales and that equals marketshare erosion of their brand.

I don't see any Kioti's near me, although now there are a couple small dealerships that opened up. I don't see any Mahindra's either, but a local garden center is now stocking the brand. I expect that they will start to make an inroad. But I also know that in my area New Holland and Kubota both keep their pencils sharp and so both right now are doing a seemingly good job. Can't speak for the local JD house, but then again, they have a bum reputation based on my experiences, but there are a lot of green machines around so some of the dealers must be selling bunches of them. My local Cub/Case/Kubota dealer has his head in the sand. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but he told me that he feels the minor brands are low quality. I have to tell you that my personal observation is that he is crazy. I think he has his head in the sand and perhaps he will see the light, but I won't pay extra for one of his Kubota's if I can get another brand that will do roughly the same job, with roughly similar reliability at a significantly lower price.
 
   / Bad Internet Dealer Experience
  • Thread Starter
#20  
TCBoomer...thanks for weighing in. The local aspect is no guarantee as you so well stated.

For those that have a great relationship with the local dealer, more power to them. That is clearly the right choice for them.

Bob...enjoyed your postings /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Better take good care of Mrs Bob. You got a "keeper".
 

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