Backhoe Bad day: flipped backhoe, then almost flipped tractor...

[tman1020]

Glad you're OK as well as the machine and I really like your optimistic point of view about being able to grease the bottom side.

 

[dragoneggs]

x2. I'm glad Coyote Machine didn't get hurt and that all equipment survived but now I recognize the "benefit" of simply storing the BH outside on a 6x6 with outriggers extended. I've always been a bit jealous of those with a nice concrete floored barn but I think I'll just count my blessings and keep doing things the same way. A bit of a pain to put a big canvas tarp over it but I'll live with it.

I have the BXpanded BH dolly and love it because I have limited space and need to move it around frequently. I don't take it off much so I watch the youtube video some times again just to refresh my memory.

 

[MoMower]

Back when I worked for a living, I was Union Ironworker. One thing you learn quickly is that if you drop something, or something falls, Do not try to catch it. It is so en grained that I watch stuff hit the ground and then chuckle....glad you and the equipment are fine.

 

[downsizingnow48]

CM glad you are ok. Dangerous event.

My dad and uncles clubbed it into my skull, never prop up anything heavy unless out in the middle of a field where it can't hurt anyone and even then don't do it!

 

[paulfun9]

Glad no one got hurt ! A big thanks because I was just planning to take the hoe off and store it the same as last year but after reading your post I will be putting much more thought into my storage plan this year. Think I might rearrange a few things and use the overhead beam and a trolley as a safety. A little harder to move that way but well worth the piece of mind.

 

[Coyote machine]

Thanks to all who have replied since I last posted. We, wife and I, appreciate the support. I have been eying a gantry crane that I saw at Harbor Freight earlier in the Fall. I saw one at a boat restoration museum in Clayton, NY, and it was the same model. Not saying it would have prevented the hoe from flipping, but it might have. Pretty big expense as I recall, but I think I may seriously consider it for the extra safety factor.

I don't want this thread to discourage anyone from using a dolly type support. The entire fault is mine. I went from a concrete floor, to a floor covered with polypropylene tiles that are somewhat slippery under the right conditions, and can create unexpected resistance to small dolly wheels from rolling in others. I used my log grapple, which was on the tractor, just as I thought, I'll try moving the hoe one more time this way, and if that doesn't work I'll switch to the pallet forks.... Well, too late, I should have been less lazy and gone to get the forks. They allow me to drive over the sub-frame and access the entire hoe and lift it,CAREFULLY, to allow moving it to a better position. But I had already spent a lot of time messing with dolly position/adjustment and decided to forgo the forks for the grapple. Big mistake.
I changed the platform and it was less stable than I thought it would be, much to my surprise. And It was much more tippy on the dipper end than it was previously. So, point is I created the bad Ju-Ju, and now need to re-work the platform to prevent this type of occurrence in future.

Bigger 5" polypro wheels with swivel base/locks on each, bought today. Progress and final product will be shown as it pans out. Stay tuned.

 

[300UGUY]

You might want to watch the size of the wheels. I've had to design dollies for my equipment to accommodate the range of the 3 pt arms. I don't have a backhoe, so I don't know what your height restriction would be.

 

[IslandTractor]

Regarding implement used to lift/move the BH, I can see that the grapple wasn't a great idea (though I might well have done the same). I would think that a tree boom on the loader with chain or straps to the BH might be even safer than forks. Wouldn't lifting from above provide more stability than using forks below a top heavy BH/dolly?

 

[bumperm]

IslandTractor is spot on. The BH has an inherently high center of gravity, and when not on the tractor tends to be tippy. Here's a dolly I made for my BH77 hoe. If I were doing it again, I'd spread the two wheels further apart for more stability and use an A frame (rather than the T), as on the T frame the hoe main boom pivot sags down to sit on the frame - not a big deal, but does flex the frame. Also, when I modify it, I'll make latches to go over the top of the pin cradles - shown are simple cups, which work fine, but if spreading the wheels apart for added anti-tip, it does no good if the hoe support points are narrow without locking it down.

The cradle is used on concrete, even so, the hard rubber tread is too soft - would be better of with either hard urethane of steel wheels.

 

[dragoneggs]

Here is the BX BH dolly. Note 4 wheels, a cross support for the bucket, and locating stops for proper positioning. It rolls under the mounted BH until it contacts the tractor. Then you use the hydraulics and pull the connection pins. Fairly easy to do.

 

[Coyote machine]

Regarding implement used to lift/move the BH, I can see that the grapple wasn't a great idea (though I might well have done the same). I would think that a tree boom on the loader with chain or straps to the BH might be even safer than forks. Wouldn't lifting from above provide more stability than using forks below a top heavy BH/dolly?

Some of the difficulty of lifting from above is clearances and COG. I only have 8'H overhead electric doors in the main section of the barn, so having the loader, or a tree boom on the FEL arms would have to clear the top of the dipper/boom peak point and still be under the OH door when I go to push/pull the hoe into the bay from the leading edge of the floor after it's been removed from the tractor, placed on the dolly, and having removed the hoe I have only loaded tires for ballast, once I turn the tractor around to maneuver the hoe/dolly into the bay.

I've had good luck so far using the forks to place under the hoe station while riding over the subframe, as I remember the sequence. I'm still at some risk of loosing the whole rig if the hoe were to slide/slip/drop off balance from the forks. This could render the hoe AND tractor susceptible to laying over while I try to escape or stay strapped in place on the tractor. One other possibility is the adjacent unheated bay that houses my boat over winter. The problem there is not that I have a 12'H OH door, with plenty of clearance; the problem lies in not having much space to maneuver the hoe on the dolly in front of the boat. I built big, but not that big.
I'll have to look at the remaining space to see what might work. I'd rather have the hoe in my heated bays, but I could rethink that need.
What does a tree boom look like, exactly? Do you use one, IT?

IslandTractor is spot on. The BH has an inherently high center of gravity, and when not on the tractor tends to be tippy. Here's a dolly I made for my BH77 hoe. If I were doing it again, I'd spread the two wheels further apart for more stability and use an A frame (rather than the T), as on the T frame the hoe main boom pivot sags down to sit on the frame - not a big deal, but does flex the frame. Also, when I modify it, I'll make latches to go over the top of the pin cradles - shown are simple cups, which work fine, but if spreading the wheels apart for added anti-tip, it does no good if the hoe support points are narrow without locking it down.

The cradle is used on concrete, even so, the hard rubber tread is too soft - would be better of with either hard urethane of steel wheels.

I hear you on the wheel construction, something that rolls easily, takes a LOT of weight, without flat spots forming and preferably steel or hard poly.
Where does one find these wheels? I have a H Depot, but no real other choices unless online somewhere....
best I've found is 5" poly wheel each at 350#s?!
I agree on the A-frame design. Right now I only have a approximately 2 x 2' square dolly made of 2 x 12's. It's WAY too small, and offers NO extended support like a A-frame would. I may design a similar platform to what I have, bigger with outriggers to provide lateral and front to back support. My original thought was to keep it compact and storable by reducing the overall footprint. I do have two metal with rubber wheel dollies that I was also thinking of incorporating into the design, but I'm not a real brainiac when it comes to wood and metal fabrication....

Here is the BX BH dolly. Note 4 wheels, a cross support for the bucket, and locating stops for proper positioning. It rolls under the mounted BH until it contacts the tractor. Then you use the hydraulics and pull the connection pins. Fairly easy to do.

View attachment 444661

Seems to do the job well. Any pics of the hoe on the dolly? How much does your hoe weigh?

And yes I do need to keep in mind how much clearance is available to get the dolly under the hoe and the hoe off the tractor without a height conflict....

Thanks all. Keep the ideas, comments coming....

 

[IslandTractor]

I'll find some better photos of my tree boom when I get home. I have a photo of my tree boom lifting a swim float (and my neighbor) on my iPhone so will post that.

No problem with garage doors as the tree boom can be set either above or below the level of the bucket.

Photo shows the tree boom lifting to max height but I could just as easily "dump" the tree boom down to pick up something at ground level.

 

[Msamt]

Echo everyones concern and happiness you came out unscathed. I enjoy learning on TBN almost as much as some people love spending others money (guilty). Last year I plowed without my counterweight on and it was hairy to say the least, its going on this year without fail.

Again, thanks for posting, some may be to proud to share their mistakes or accidents, but you served to make me again think EVERY time about how easily this thing could kill me!

 

[IslandTractor]

I'll find some better photos of my tree boom when I get home. I have a photo of my tree boom lifting a swim float (and my neighbor) on my iPhone so will post that.

No problem with garage doors as the tree boom can be set either above or below the level of the bucket.

Photo shows the tree boom lifting to max height but I could just as easily "dump" the tree boom down to pick up something at ground level.

Here are some better photos of the tree boom. It is a SSQA implement with no moving parts other than a couple of shackles. There are two attachment points on the boom, at the middle and at the end. It essentially converts the FEL into a mini crane. I've used it to lift a number of pretty heavy items and I find it much better and safer than lifting top heavy items with forks. I use both chain and sometimes straps to attach to the load. We pull the swimming raft (1500lbs) up over a seawall by dropping the tree boom over the edge then curling and lifting. I use it to move implements on and off a trailer. One thing I have never used it for is moving a tree root ball which is where it got it's name.

 

[Garycw]

That thing looks useful but dangerous.

 

[Coyote machine]

Here are some better photos of the tree boom. It is a SSQA implement with no moving parts other than a couple of shackles. There are two attachment points on the boom, at the middle and at the end. It essentially converts the FEL into a mini crane. I've used it to lift a number of pretty heavy items and I find it much better and safer than lifting top heavy items with forks. I use both chain and sometimes straps to attach to the load. We pull the swimming raft (1500lbs) up over a seawall by dropping the tree boom over the edge then curling and lifting. I use it to move implements on and off a trailer. One thing I have never used it for is moving a tree root ball which is where it got it's name.

Looks good! Who makes it? Thanks for the pics too. I can't make out the brand name on the pic with the boom on the ground?

 

[IslandTractor]

It's a fairly generic implement. Mine is from Millonzi but they have been out of business for years. I just did a quick google search and found one at palletforks.com for $295.

It is also an ideal DYI project as there are no moving parts or critical tolerances.

 

[bumperm]

You can buy a "blank" SSQA mounting plate in various thicknesses from a number of sources. The plate saves cutting and welding the "hard part" of a SSQA attachment. Here's one on Amazon for $144 (free shipping).

Amazon.com: Titan 5/16 Quick Attach Attachment Mount Plate Skid steer bobcat kubota 516MP: Home Improvement

I used a similar plate to make an item specific set of forks to pick up and move a 500 lb hydraulic man lift. The lift has wheels, but there's no good way to move it over non-smooth or paved surfaces. Moving it around with the tractor is a breeze (goes up to 30' working height so is great for cleaning gutters etc.

bumper

 

[Coyote machine]

You can buy a "blank" SSQA mounting plate in various thicknesses from a number of sources. The plate saves cutting and welding the "hard part" of a SSQA attachment. Here's one on Amazon for $144 (free shipping).

Amazon.com: Titan 5/16 Quick Attach Attachment Mount Plate Skid steer bobcat kubota 516MP: Home Improvement

I used a similar plate to make an item specific set of forks to pick up and move a 500 lb hydraulic man lift. The lift has wheels, but there's no good way to move it over non-smooth or paved surfaces. Moving it around with the tractor is a breeze (goes up to 30' working height so is great for cleaning gutters etc.

bumper

I have two: one for my sickle bar, and another with a receiver hitch female end welded on to move my boat and other trailered items around my yard.

 

[PhysAssist]

Some of the difficulty of lifting from above is clearances and COG. I only have 8'H overhead electric doors in the main section of the barn, so having the loader, or a tree boom on the FEL arms would have to clear the top of the dipper/boom peak point and still be under the OH door when I go to push/pull the hoe into the bay from the leading edge of the floor after it's been removed from the tractor, placed on the dolly, and having removed the hoe I have only loaded tires for ballast, once I turn the tractor around to maneuver the hoe/dolly into the bay.

I've had good luck so far using the forks to place under the hoe station while riding over the subframe, as I remember the sequence. I'm still at some risk of loosing the whole rig if the hoe were to slide/slip/drop off balance from the forks. This could render the hoe AND tractor susceptible to laying over while I try to escape or stay strapped in place on the tractor. One other possibility is the adjacent unheated bay that houses my boat over winter. The problem there is not that I have a 12'H OH door, with plenty of clearance; the problem lies in not having much space to maneuver the hoe on the dolly in front of the boat. I built big, but not that big.
I'll have to look at the remaining space to see what might work. I'd rather have the hoe in my heated bays, but I could rethink that need.
What does a tree boom look like, exactly? Do you use one, IT?



I hear you on the wheel construction, something that rolls easily, takes a LOT of weight, without flat spots forming and preferably steel or hard poly.
Where does one find these wheels? I have a H Depot, but no real other choices unless online somewhere....
best I've found is 5" poly wheel each at 350#s?!
I agree on the A-frame design. Right now I only have a approximately 2 x 2' square dolly made of 2 x 12's. It's WAY too small, and offers NO extended support like a A-frame would. I may design a similar platform to what I have, bigger with outriggers to provide lateral and front to back support. My original thought was to keep it compact and storable by reducing the overall footprint. I do have two metal with rubber wheel dollies that I was also thinking of incorporating into the design, but I'm not a real brainiac when it comes to wood and metal fabrication....



Seems to do the job well. Any pics of the hoe on the dolly? How much does your hoe weigh?

And yes I do need to keep in mind how much clearance is available to get the dolly under the hoe and the hoe off the tractor without a height conflict....

Thanks all. Keep the ideas, comments coming....

Hi Coyote Machine,

I picked up some decent steel wheeled casters at TSC, not as big a diameter as you werecmentioning, more like 6", but about 3 or 4" wide too.
These are the ones:

Titan Casters 6 in. Heavy-Duty Steel Plate Caster, Swivel, 900 lb. Capacity - For Life Out Here

These are bigger though:

Bulldog Detachable Steel Caster Wheel Assembly - For Life Out Here. -Solid, but pricey

Thomas