Backup Generator

[RoyKing]

I'm helping my friend with his 30kw with deep sea controller and we are going to use a 200 amp generac crossover a video of how make it flip, was posted on utube, Got a copy of the 2017 NEC code to get the labeling correct under chap 702, and all wire gauges correct. The generac has a disconnect so we will come out meter into the generac the out the orginal box, then line taps will feed back to the deep sea controller which will ground a 24vdc signal line back to xtranfer box to flip the solenoid. Also hoping to integrate a clock timer in the house so that in long outage's you can program a 2 hr on 2hr cycle at night while power is out. That way the deep sea will do shutdown routine of cut power, cool down, then shutdown, later start warm up cut in power, 30kw should run whole house, maybe even get low fuel auto refill working from 55 gal drums,

 

[LittleBill21]

I'm helping my friend with his 30kw with deep sea controller and we are going to use a 200 amp generac crossover a video of how make it flip, was posted on utube, Got a copy of the 2017 NEC code to get the labeling correct under chap 702, and all wire gauges correct. The generac has a disconnect so we will come out meter into the generac the out the orginal box, then line taps will feed back to the deep sea controller which will ground a 24vdc signal line back to xtranfer box to flip the solenoid. Also hoping to integrate a clock timer in the house so that in long outage's you can program a 2 hr on 2hr cycle at night while power is out. That way the deep sea will do shutdown routine of cut power, cool down, then shutdown, later start warm up cut in power, 30kw should run whole house, maybe even get low fuel auto refill working from 55 gal drums,

Roy,

There is a guy on SteelSoldiers, who has figured it out as well to interface with a mep generator if you run into trouble. i would be interested in seeing the progress on the integration as i would do the same thing if I go that route

 

[RoyKing]

I believe the video mention hooking up to a mep, but I don't know if that's related to the guy building a board for mep to as a controller with a wifi interface. He did video showing starting the mep from his phone and also controlling various loads in the house via a phone app.

I'm wanting a unattended mode so if nobody is home it will wait 2 hrs to start the Gen, enough time for the power Co to fix the average tree limb outage and then start some cycle enough to keep the fridge freezer, fish
. From studying the deep sea it will not do many cycles a day but supports two wire starts and found a 24vdc clock that will do timer functions. So 24vdc battery system will power the deepsea and timer will have to find current draw to see if two week autorun cycle will keep battery charge or have add 24v battery maintainer.

 

[Hunter29]

I was taught to do lacing at my first job. It was before zip ties took hold. It was a painstaking proceedure.Also did lots of wirewrapping, but that was kind of fun. That was great for prototypes in a card cage.

I think I would call that braiding , done a lot of that, still do..

 

[kcflhrc]

I think I would call that braiding , done a lot of that, still do..

Nope, lacing. Still done in Central Office's and a lot of Telecom rooms. You won't see a single ty-rap in our CO's. For one reason if not cut absolutely flush they will cut the **** out of you.
This is what I'm talking about.

Instructional cable lacing sewing a Kansas City Stitch - YouTube

 

[Industrial Toys]

Thanks for that. Very interesting, but I don't find the end result very attractive. We used black wax impregnated flat string of some sort. And it would be a continuous process along a bundle, not just every here and there. I don't recall that we ever had a needle.

Dispite my best efforts, I still cut into wires when snipping tye raps for removal. And yes, people that don't cut tye raps flush, should be sentenced to the death of a thousand cuts. And then there are those, that don't think tye raps need to be cut off at all.

 

[Hunter29]

So, you run that genset yet ?

 

[RoyKing]

Have not seen this discussed about load management. This would be handy even if you don't use an auto transfer switch. These are from generac smm 7000 module, they turn of the load by monitoring a frequency drop, each unit good for 50amp/240 load and you can have up to 8 priorities set $120.00 each. For the Auto switch 30kw unit when figuring the house load follow section 220 part IV of the new code we need to knock out the range 8.5kw and dryer 5.5kw. I figure it would make life easier for wife to live a Gen power when your not home, much easier to install rather separate Gen panel.

watch video
Buy Generac 7 Smart Management Module | Nationwide Generators

 

[Hunter29]

Green Acres appliance # system. - YouTube

 

[downsizingnow48]

So, you run that genset yet ?

Still raining at least part of each day. Ground saturated. Until I have a place to install it gen sits in dump trailer in the Sacramento garage.

 

[grsthegreat]

Have not seen this discussed about load management. This would be handy even if you don't use an auto transfer switch. These are from generac smm 7000 module, they turn of the load by monitoring a frequency drop, each unit good for 50amp/240 load and you can have up to 8 priorities set $120.00 each. For the Auto switch 30kw unit when figuring the house load follow section 220 part IV of the new code we need to knock out the range 8.5kw and dryer 5.5kw. I figure it would make life easier for wife to live a Gen power when your not home, much easier to install rather separate Gen panel.

watch video
Buy Generac 7 Smart Management Module | Nationwide Generators

yes, ive installed quite literally 100s of these little gems. They work great, except i have had issues with the optional forced shed on generator feature. As long as its allowed to monitor itself they work great. Personally i never regulate any large device that cannot run on its one...like a range or dryer, because the homeowner doesnt need to use these if theres an issue. I regulate large draw automatic start devices like electric heat strips. For large load shed issues, PSP Products offers some amazing devices. I can shed off a 100 amp heating load from a house very easily and let an air cooled 22 kw generator operate a 400 amp house.

 

[downsizingnow48]

I do not see how the smart power management options are going to work for my setup. The utility power goes to the shop. That is where the generator interlock panel is. The interlock panel has two breakers. One is 60 amp that goes to the shop breaker panel. The other is 100 amp which goes to the house breaker panel, about 100 ft away. So there is no way to fine tune load priorities at least that I can see.

 

[grsthegreat]

I do not see how the smart power management options are going to work for my setup. The utility power goes to the shop. That is where the generator interlock panel is. The interlock panel has two breakers. One is 60 amp that goes to the shop breaker panel. The other is 100 amp which goes to the house breaker panel, about 100 ft away. So there is no way to fine tune load priorities at least that I can see.

My only experience is with Generac branded units. The load shed modules are controlled wirelessly thru house wiring. Ive used them to control loads in multiple buildings fed from one source. They wont work with portable generators or with other brands of generators. PSP unit load shed products can work with multiple brands

 

[RoyKing]

My only experience is with Generac branded units. The load shed modules are controlled wirelessly thru house wiring. Ive used them to control loads in multiple buildings fed from one source. They wont work with portable generators or with other brands of generators. PSP unit load shed products can work with multiple brands

Generac has two version of load management, one is in the auto transfer switch, which monitors frequency and will stage up to 4 devices like AC'S that use 24vac controls like a thermostat, the other is a standalone units that you wire into your main breaker panel to interrupt large single loads up to 50amps. Neither device needs a generac generator. They list them as wireless but they are not wifi and do not listen a central controller. The just monitor frequency, they have time/drift algorithm. So even if your on house power and frequency drop happens they will kick in. So instead having to manually monitor your load via generator current draw output scale they will do it for you. Nice for things like hot water, lets say the AC and hot water will overload the gen especially during AC startup. This device will see the extended frequency drop and shut off the hot water for 5 minutes then reconnect and monitor again. Now if you are running a 8kw brush type screamer I doubt you power is clean enough for these units, you would have scope you unit to see the output, but large alternator driven genset, especially with digital controlled voltage regulators hold there frequency very tight.

 

[Ken45101]

I just ran across this thread. Interesting.

As some have said, storing enough gas for an extended outage has it's problems. OTOH, I normally have a good supply of diesel here for the farm equipment and I can add more without major problems.

We do have a Honda EU3000i for short term outages.

I bought a 15kw Winco PTO driven generator for more long term outages and more power if ever needed. Although hooking up the 3pt and PTO is more of a hassle than the Honda, I don't have an additional engine and battery to maintain and I have backup tractors that can replace the Kubota B2710 if needed. And, of course, a better, cleaner supply of diesel fuel instead of gasoline.

This setup also lets me run the welder or plasma cutter anywhere on the farm

 

[RoyKing]

I was in the same boat, but gasoline requires you to regularly run the unit or drain winterize and put battery tender on it. Plus honda 3000 is not cheap, neither is the PTO unit, but it has the advantage of other uses. Then I noticed a small town nearby was installing MEP-802A units to run the street lights, then I found the forum steel soldiers and read up. Still was not keen of buying a auction unit. Then I found a guy on Craig list that sells units that he gives 3 year warranty labor and used parts for $2500. I went and inspected the unit, and his shop, all very first class. So I bought a unit built in 1996 with 760 hours on it. I will use 55 gallon drum storage, and when big hurricane is on the way I'll fill multiple drums. The mep's have nice feature they automatically refill there on board tank which holds enough for 8 hours of full output. Plus it will deliver 3 phase 208, single phase 240, or single phase 120 without a down grade of output, they have very good built in protection and diagnostics, and a battle mode. Which means if a sensor fails it will override and run. Some thing that even todays fancy controller like the Deep Sea emulate. Warning don't buy and mep-804a/b as they are 3phase only machines. I'm also designing a 30kw unit with auto transfer, load management, auto exercise for friend but that will end up being about $14k

 

[techman]

Royking,

The lesson I learned was a steel 55 gal drum is not the best way to go. I had one for a number of years. One time I looked in with a flashlight and was shocked at the layer of rust and crud that had formed on the tank walls. I quickly acquired a plastic 55 gal drum. Have been using it for 12 years and still clean inside. Last year I added a desiccant breather to the barrel since it is in an unheated shed, and moisture was starting to accumulate at the bottom due to barometric pressure and temperature breathing in the tank.

Paul

 

[Industrial Toys]

That is MOST interesting that there are consumer load shedding systems available. I never knew. Having several Diesel Gensets, 3.7, 7.5, 7.5 Inverter and 12 KW units, BUT an electrically heated house, I was working on a system of my own to shut off resistive heating loads. I have to do that manualy now.

I wonder if any of these systems can be configured to run off a aux switch contact on my 200 amp asco ATS. It would save me designing a system.

 

[RoyKing]

True vented uncoated tanks are bad idea, I'm using food grade epoxy tanks, and the one I use for tractors is not vented. I was looking at desiccant breather but here in Florida you would be refreshing the desiccant weekly unless you use the fancy ones with check valves, was thinking of trying to find check valves and make one using clear pvc so you could open it and regen the desiccant. The other problem was finding a sling that holds the plastic drums unloading out of the truck with the FEL. Does you vent allow you to regen it?

 

[Industrial Toys]

We have been using ugly, steel, 1200litre or so, tanks for almost half a century. in a very changeable climate. One is the original, and I am sure, the others just as old. The only trouble I ever realized, was when I had a pump pipe going right to the bottom of a tank and I wasn't aware of it.