Backhoe Strong?

[chuck172]

I just recently met someone who has a 7 year old dk45. 800 hours and a severally cracked bellhousing. I say bellhousing, but it could be the trans housing, I don't know for sure. He doesn't know how it cracked. He babied the tractor, never misused the backhoe. Hardly used the bh at all. Got me wondering. Were these foreign machines really designed for back hoe use? How good are the castings from South Korea?
I always thought I'd get a bh for my dk40 eventually. Probably still will. I know that certain tractor backhoes are more prone than others for undercarriage cracks. The John Deere 110tlb comes to mind. If a tractor breaks or should I say cracks from backhoe use, is it covered by kioti's 4 year warranty or will it be considered miss-used by the owner?
I just read somewhere in an older thread that a kb2485 hoe doesn't have enough power to lift the rear tires up off the ground. Is this true? My old ford 4500 can dance around with backhoe power. These hoes go for like $8k. Are they powerful enough to work, will they break the machine?

 

[4570Man]

Was he using a 3 point hitch or a subframe backhoe? Tractors are certainly not built like a real backhoe. Tractors are built to pull , not run a backhoe and loader. Using a backhoe and loader will certainly wear your tractor out faster, but you shouldn't be breaking the bell housing. A JD 110 has similar force ratings as my Kubota BH 90 except the swing force which is drastically more on the JD. Edit I just looked up the specs. The JD 110 is substantially stronger in every rating. Even the loader lifts 2,700 to full height which is pretty impressive for a 43 hp machine.

 

[chuck172]

The dk45 that cracked had the full subframe. The guy just doesn't know what to do. He had it welded once, didn't hold. Cast iron just doesn't always take to welding.

 

[VictorW]

I have the KB2375 on my CK30hst. I haven't had any problems. The bh on tractors isn't a substitute for a dedicated front loader/bh machine. The manual states that the stabs are to be on the ground for support but the tires are still to contact the ground. The stabs aren't to level the tractor when on an incline to dig perfectly vertical. Using the bh to swing the rear of the tractor around into another position, push yourself forward, or pull yourself backwards is not recommended. You say he babied the tractor and didn't misuse the bh. Maybe he just had a casting fault in his which would have caused a crack eventually. The bh is reasonably strong and when used within reason, the tractor shouldn't suffer but it does have it's limitations compared to a dedicated machine. I borrowed a small rubber tracked excavator to do some work in my pond and even though a small unit, it would out dig my bh by ten times because that's what is was made for specifically.

 

[tman1020]

There was a post on here a couple years back of a guy with a kioti CK 30 or a ct230 cant remember for sure with a factory Backhoe with subframe Mount that had cracked his bell housing/transmission housing. He had good pics posted showing the crack and said that he was not abusing it just working it normally. Everyone was surprised to see it because of the fact he did have the subframe mount. It was still under warranty so I believe it was repaired but I guess it was a close one. The general consensus was that he hooked something with the Backhoe bucket while digging that raised the front end of the tractor and then the bucket slipped free and thus dropped the front of the tractor. The impact of the drop was thought to have caused the break.

 

[Fawken]

A sub-frame is only going to redistribute some of the stress forces, not all. Misuse can be interpreted in several different ways. I use my SCUT, 3 point hoe for trenching, repair digs, and generally light usage. The last job I did with it was 3 months ago and I posted pictures here, but that was borderline excavator work IMO. It was a 3 feet wide by 30 inch deep by 60 foot long drainage canal for a neighbor. Just know that a SCUT backhoe will not dig a stock tank or a swimming pool for that matter.

 

[4570Man]

I use my subframe mounted BH90 pretty hard. I do use the backhoe arm to move the tractor around. I almost always lift the tractor off the ground with the stabilizers. The backhoe has a relive valve for a reason. I wouldn't consider using a backhoe to its maximum strength abusing it. I would think about the worst you could do to a backhoe is to put a rock hammer on it. I would be extremely surprised if a small excavator ( like 5,000 pounds or less) could out dig my BH90 by 10 times. If it takes me an hour to dig a ditch then the excavator could dig it in only 6 minutes.

 

[chuck172]

When a backhoe is used, it's gonna get beat-up, its gonna bang the machine around, that's just the nature of the beast. Could be that the modern imported SCUT just really isn't designed for use with a backhoe. I have a Kioti DK40. I guess it's classified as a CUT. Paid lots of $$ for it. I'm thinking about a bh for it but I don't want to kill the machine. I want it to last for years and years. To tell the truth, if I had to do it over, I'd cosider something more in line with the now discontinued John Deere 110TLB. Although I understand they are prone to cracked bellhousings too.

 

[IslandTractor]

I've had a Woods BH90x on my DK40se since new in 2007. I dig stumps, trenches, rocks and use a ripper to take down trees. It uses a four point subframe. Zero problems with either the BH or tractor. I don't baby either but I don't reposition by dragging the tractor.

A cracked bell housing or transmission case is not a common issue with Kioti. Could be a defective casting or an unusual accident or stress but whatever it was it isn't a common problem.

I wouldn't hesitate for a second to add either a Kioti or Woods subframe mounted BH to a CK or DK.

 

[OutBurst]

Yeah, if it has a cracked bellhousing, stay away. Even if it is 'repaired', stay away.

 

[4570Man]

To tell the truth, if I had to do it over, I'd cosider something more in line with the now discontinued John Deere 110TLB. Although I understand they are prone to cracked bellhousings too.

I would love to have a JD 110. They bring about 25,000 maybe 30,009 if you want a newer model. Lots of guys have more money in a less capable machine.

 

[cabin kioti]

I have a CK30 with a 23/75bh. I have never had a problem and through the years have dug out some pretty big stumps. What I have found that always have the out riggers on the ground bucket down and rear tires on the ground with brakes locked. The ck is a 2006 and the bh has preformed excellent. If you try to move the machine with the backhoe instead of relocating it with the tractor you could put a lot of strain on the tractor that could cause some problems.

 

[Carl_NH]

I would love to have a JD 110. They bring about 25,000 maybe 30,009 if you want a newer model. Lots of guys have more money in a less capable machine.

The Kubota L39 (GST) or L45 (HST) can be found for $25-35K and the L45 has slightly better specs than JD110TLB. Like the JD110 it takes time to find a good one that hasn't been abused or a rental. With the 110 being out of production now, that's a factor, but JD is great for parts and support.

 

[DK35vince]

I have a 2001 DK 35.
I've had a Rhino 85 (8 1/2' digging depth) backhoe I have been using on this tractor since 2003 with no problems.
The sub frame on my Rhino 85 comes off with the backhoe similar to the Kioti hoe.
Personally I think the 4 point type sub frames that stay bolted to the tractor when the backhoe comes off may give the tractor more support/strength.

 

[4570Man]

The Kubota L39 (GST) or L45 (HST) can be found for $25-35K and the L45 has slightly better specs than JD110TLB. Like the JD110 it takes time to find a good one that hasn't been abused or a rental. With the 110 being out of production now, that's a factor, but JD is great for parts and support.

The Kubota L45 would be a sweet machine. It has very similar specs as a JD 110, plus it is orange.

 

[IslandTractor]

I have a 2001 DK 35. I've had a Rhino 85 (8 1/2' digging depth) backhoe I have been using on this tractor since 2003 with no problems. The sub frame on my Rhino 85 comes off with the backhoe similar to the Kioti hoe. Personally I think the 4 point type sub frames that stay bolted to the tractor when the backhoe comes off may give the tractor more support/strength.

I had a Kioti KB2365 on my CK20 and the Woods on my DK. Both subframe a work fine but the Kioti type was a lot easier to hook up. It would take about 5 min to do the Kioti BH and it takes 15 or more to do the Woods. Nice 4 pt frame but zero slop in lining things up in all three dimensions simultaneously.

 

[DK35vince]

I had a Kioti KB2365 on my CK20 and the Woods on my DK. Both subframe a work fine but the Kioti type was a lot easier to hook up. It would take about 5 min to do the Kioti BH and it takes 15 or more to do the Woods. Nice 4 pt frame but zero slop in lining things up in all three dimensions simultaneously.

Do you feel the 4 point sub frame being bolted on gives any more support to the tractor, bell housing area, Etc ?

 

[IslandTractor]

Do you feel the 4 point sub frame being bolted on gives any more support to the tractor, bell housing area, Etc ?

Recall that the Kioti subframe has a mount under the PTO that is also bolted down. The tabs in front are also bolted.

I owned the tractors sequentially so never compared them directly. I certainly never thought the Kioti BH was anything but securely mounted though.

The Woods has the advantage of being a much smaller subframe so makes the BH easier to store. That is about the only practical advantage however.

 

[DK35vince]

Recall that the Kioti subframe has a mount under the PTO that is also bolted down. The tabs in front are also bolted.

I owned the tractors sequentially so never compared them directly. I certainly never thought the Kioti BH was anything but securely mounted though.

The Woods has the advantage of being a much smaller subframe so makes the BH easier to store. That is about the only practical advantage however.

I just assumed that the 4 point sub frame was heavy steel plate support bars that mounted to the rear end housing all the way up to engine mount area. But maybe I'm assuming all wrong and the sub frame doesn't bolt on that far forward on the tractor.

 

[IslandTractor]

I just assumed that the 4 point sub frame was heavy steel plate support bars that mounted to the rear end housing all the way up to engine mount area. But maybe I'm assuming all wrong and the sub frame doesn't bolt on that far forward on the tractor.

I'll try to remember to get photos next time I get down to the tractor. There is heavy metal plate that is well secured to the tractor but again the Kioti setup is no wimp either. I