B2710 Trans is Shot

[M. Sullivan]

Just found out they have to replace the hydro on my 2000 B2710, 53 hours total use--I'm just sick. They say the tractor basically gets dismantled and reassembled--don't even want it back. After 2 hours from fluid/filter changes the filter and screens have brass and steel in them. While the dealer and service are great, just won't go back-together with factory quality control, and where in the system is it all full of crap to fail other components or the next trans.... Hence my confidence in a relatively trouble-free 20 year machine (which is why I bought it!) is zero. Dealer's going to see what Kubota wil do...... Off to write my monthly payment and cut the grass/leaves with my 15 y/o sears rider..... Got the only lemon in the orange grove.

 

[hayden]

Wow, that really stinks. Good luck getting satisfaction on it.

Peter

 

[ejb]

Too bad about the tractor, but it strikes me funny that you are worried that it "just won't go back-together with factory quality control"....wasn't it that factory quality control that allowed this too happen in the first place?

Don't despair..you'll gradually have your confidence restored after you've had it back for a while...good luck.

 

[Bird]

I can understand your feelings about that tractor right now. I bought a new car in 1993 and while it was in warranty, had to have a complete new clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, etc. supposedly because someone on an assembly line left out a couple of bolts. But the dealer loaned me a car, did the job promptly, and that car ran another hundred thousand miles with no complaints, and the only reason I got rid of it even then was because my wife rolled it and totalled it./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif If your dealer has a competent mechanic, the tractor should be good as new when he finishes with it.

Bird

 

[Anonymous Poster]

M.Sullivan,I'm sorry to here of your trouble,we have a 2710 with about 200 hrs. on it,with absolutley NO problems.Try to keep the faith that all things usually have a way of working out.I'm sure your dealer and Kubota will repair or replace your tractor.If I were in your position,I would ask my dealer for a "loaner" while yours is in the shop.I think a case such as this is more reason to at least try to buy from a local dealer,remember;tractors are mechanical and will break down on occasion,having that dealer close by could save a lot of grief.Good luck.

 

[MChalkley]

I'll just repeat what the others have said, but this is a situation where repetition for emphasis is perhaps important.

I'm sorry for the trouble you're having. Keep in mind, though, as best you can, that these things do happen from time to time, no matter what precautions are taken. That's not much consolation to you at this moment, I suspect, but it will be when you get it back and it's working perfectly. There's a reason why those who have lots of experience with equipment say "If it lasts a month, it'll last a lifetime." That applies to quality equipment only, of course - buy junk and your odds of it lasting a month aren't all that great but your odds of it lasting a lifetime are almost non-existent.

At any rate, you bought quality equipment, but had the rare misfortune of getting a lemon. That sort of thing does happen, unfortunately. Kubota will stand behind it completely - I'm sure of that. And when you do get it back, and have occasion to use it a few hours, you'll slowly forget.

Please keep us informed of what happens. We're all interested. For one thing, we all know it's likely to happen to us sooner or later, if it hasn't already, and we'd appreciate your being sympathetic with us, too. It all helps.

MarkC

 

[Kelvin]

Kinda reminds me of the situation with my Dodge Caravan a few years ago. I took it in for an oil change while it was still under the extended warranty; they found a water leak and wanted to know if I wanted them to fix it using the $25 deductable. I approved.

When I went to pick the van up after work, I was told that it wouldn't be ready until the next day (they had the engine was out of the vehicle). For the same $25 deductable they went ahead and replaced the crankshaft (still not sure why). My wife won't let me get rid of it and so it is approaching 180K miles. No engine problems or any other major problems.

Summary: Don't sweat them working on it. Hopefully, they are fully qualified to fix it, and if so, it'll be better than new!

Kelvin

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Just replaced a hydro on a B2710. Input shaft was leaking,
while in the process of replacing the seal noticed charge pump was damaged, most likely from contamination. I can't stress enough when cleaning the suction filter to make sure and clear the debris from the line after the screen is pulled out. I'm not saying this is definetly the cause of the failure but it certainly can contribute. As far as your fear of residual contamination the dealer should flush the cooler and reservoir. All the filters in your system will be working for you from this point on. I would still recommend a fluid and filter change and screen cleaning in about 25 hours after this repair just to catch what residual
debris you will have.

 

[Mikemas]

I could think of a worse case scenario for your situation. You could be past three years of ownership and out of factory warranty. I would much rather have a failure in the early stages under warranty, than be footing the bill for a new hydro. Don't worry about your tractor never being the same. A conscientious, factory trained technician can perform as good as, if not better work than what was done during the initial build.

Kubmech,
Can you give more info on flushing the lines? Air, solvent, procedure?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[M. Sullivan]

Appreciate the support and encouragement here--even more sick about it this morning. Definitely do not want it back. As an auto engineer know full well it will not be the same. If anyone could do it, would be the dealer I bought from.....most impressive shop I've ever seen incl. many auto services shops (I've been in top ones around the country). Service manager even said they have never done one....not that it matters much.

Bottom line they don't have the ability to ensure factory alignment perfectly. Ditto torque specs and assembly 'cleanliness' or processes/sequences-any manufacturing or QC person would agree. Residual stresses will be left that will lead to non-production intent loading and wear on bearings, seals, etc. to some level. How much, who knows....when will it fail, again who knows.... Parts removed will get scratches/dirt. Sealant residual and application wont match. Bolts likely never intended for removal will be. Corrosion start points for all.

Metal in the system will never be completely removed, and always a timebomb ticking in my mind. Based on the amount they said they found, can't see how other components haven't already been affected to some degree.

I leave a $30k car outside so the tractor can stay in the garage. For the most part it's cleaner than when I bought it-just take care of my stuff that way. Also why I bought new v. used-so I knew what I was getting and control use/maintenance. Would have never considered one with a replaced trans, at (virtually!) any price. Overbought and have to protect the investment--never know if/when I will have to sell it (likely once the surface rust starts!). Definitely cannot risk keeping it past the warranty......only choice is to replace it. Just frustrated……

Thanks again.

 

[WVBill]

I agree with you. You bought a new tractor not a re conditioned one. Once they put it back together, that's the best they could call it "reconditioned". I would demand a replacement.

Just my 2 cents.....

 

[Anonymous Poster]

The line from the charge pump to the cooler and back to the HST filter should be flushed. Remove cooler and run solvent through it till clear and blow out with air. The lines to and from the cooler can be flushed with brake clean and air.
This should clear out any major deposits left behind by the failure. The trans case can be cleaned out while the HST is removed. The main thing is not to leave the majority of the deposits behind to clog the filters, at this point the filters will do the job. The small amount of particles left behind should be harmless. But the filters should be changed/cleaned in a relatively short time after the repair to ensure all debris have been removed.
A few words on the concerns of torques and alignment...
Most kubota torque specs have a range of 10-20 ft lbs. The tolerances really are'nt that tight. Most mechanics with any degree of experience can feel if the torque wrench is not applying the correct torque most likely within this range. I know I have sent my torque wrench out for calibration before when it does'nt feel right and have been correct both times. As far as alignment, should'nt be a problem do to the use of stake bolts where the front of the frame bolts into the HST ie. rear section of tractor. Most manuals give a specific procedure for the amount and placement of sealant (however kubota does'nt specify) experience and good judgment usually prevail. Although the process of replacing the HST on this model tractor is fairly involved, it is a fairly straight forward repair. The HST is replaced as a complete factory assembled component with alignment pins to assure proper alignment with the diff/trans case. Do I disagree with the concerns of having a relatively new piece of equipment go through this kind of repair early in it's service life? No way. Do you have a "pro" working on your machine? I hope so.

 

[PaulB]

M. Sullivan - Not that my opinion (or anyone but yours) matters in this case, but I would not take the tractor back. I would start off polite and rational, and progress up the ladder to irritating and finally downright aggressive until I got a brand new unit. Talk to Japan directly if you need to. Even if the tractor is 100% perfect when the repair is finished, it will always bug you, and detract from your enjoyment of the unit. Kubota should show you, after spending $15,000, half the concern Rick at RandB shows us after we spend $40.

 

[bsauter]

M. Sullivan,

I would tell them to keep the tractor. You should have it replaced with that few hours on it. Or give you a reasonable charge for time useage. I had my B2910 replaced by Kubota after complaining about steering problems and lack of comfort. I had 22 hours on it and they took it back. Dealer talked to division president. Kubota said to make it right with me. They certainly were willing to support me and got a life customer for their effort. I did not even ask for it to be done. I thought I would take a bath on just trading it off and the dealer and Kubota did this on their own and offered it to me. Talk about great customer support!!! I would think that if they did that for me they would do it for you with a Major Repair such as that. Good luck.

Brad, Kubota L3010HST, loader, R4 tires
Pictures at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=179207&a=9183978

 

[M. Sullivan]

Re: B2710 Trans is Shot - Update

Update: Kubota will replace the tractor with a nominal charge (around $10 per hour used) per my dealer per the regional manager. Seems like a very fair resolution to me.

He's calling them back re. the loader--they planned to put it on the new machine. Still very concerned about putting the old loader/valve/lines back on after all the junk flowing through it. Will pay to get a new one if I have to (same rationale as previous post). Is there anything inherent in that part of the system that would 99.99% prevent ANY debris from getting into the valve or loader circuit?? Just cannot see risking it at all, and flushing is not 99.99% effective.

Assuming this all works out, as it appears it will, hats off to a GREAT company. Reaffirms one of the main reasons I bought it--based on my research they have their act together. Premium product demands premium service, and they deliver, period. My guess they will actually sell an L4610 to a green friend waffling between that and a JD4600 when I tell him how it worked out.

Will post final resolution.

 

[glennmac]

Re: B2710 Trans is Shot - Update

MSullivan, are you going to replace it with another 2710. I think a 2910 is worth the price difference, which should be slightly less than $1K.

 

[hayden]

Re: B2710 Trans is Shot - Update

The bucket is usually what takes all the wear in a loader. Offer to move the old bucket to your replacement tractor and they can put the new bucket on your old machine. That way all the hydraulic components are new on your new machine, but they get a clean new looking bucket on the rebuilt machine so they can more easily sell it.

Should work for everyone.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: B2710 Trans is Shot - Update

M.Sullivan,Sounds like very good news,I was sure that Kubota would take care of you,and resolve any issuses that you might have.Once again,good luck,and keep us posted.

 

[bsauter]

Re: B2710 Trans is Shot - Update

M. Sullivan, I am glad they did that for you. It is refreshing to deal with a company that cares when things don't go the way they should. Way to go Kubota!

Brad, Kubota L3010HST, loader, R4 tires
Pictures at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=179207&a=9183978

 

[M. Sullivan]

Re: B2710 Trans is Shot - Back In Business

Delivered the new one yesterday! Hit a minor snag in that the $567 usage charge ballooned to $1300 to replace the loader--dealer had to do it as a trade. Told him to do it, and I would sort out with Kubota later. Just felt the loader charge was nowhere near proportional to the tractor charge--but that was all they authorized the dealer to do. Called a Kubota regional manager and left a message. As I was writing him a letter the next day, got a call from the dealer saying Kubota wants to make me happy! Total cost $680. Couldn't be happier.

Interesting to contrast to John Deere. Got ripped-off on service for $1000 for a trans leak on a JD455 that was never totally repaired at D&G Equipment in Mason, Mi. (bought it used with the leak!). Numerous calls to JD corporate fell on deaf (and stupid) ears. The logic was so clear-cut that their responses/excuses were absurd: They diagnosed, then I brought it back 3 times leaking a little less each time, then on the fourth the new service manager said it was "something new". One JD rep. even said she was embarrassed to give me the canned response: Dealers are indepenedent business people and JD stands behind their dealers (now you know what that little marketing phrase really means at JD!). Couldn't even get past a manager level customer service rep., who was quite rude as well. Could just tell they spend their days disappointing customers by the attitudes I encountered top to bottom. At any rate, polar opposite approach at Kubota imo. Gee, interesting that Kubota doesn't have to advertise for their sales. Hmmm, wonder why--happy customers who are treated reasonably tell others?? Naw, I'm sure they would do better if they started selling cost reduced crap stamped lawn mowers and put them on TV running around in front of a 200hp piece of ag equipment. Enough JD bashing--for today.

Hats-off to Kubota, and my dealer: Aldermans in Lennon, Mi. (www.Aldermans.com). As with the original purchase, Tim Alderman did everything he said he would and then some. Not sure how much he's expanding his i-net business, but he's worth a check if you're looking for great service and support.