B2710 Lights

   / B2710 Lights #1  

DaleW

Silver Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2000
Messages
116
Location
Lower Hudson Valley New York
Tractor
B2710 FEL with a 72 inch mid mount mower and teltrax canopy
After the third inch of rain fell here today, I got cabin fever and went out to do some shopping. Wound up at a Auto Zone store and was browsing through when I came upon a high intensity back up bulb (50 Watts). I thought maybe this would be a good replacement for the 23 watt headlamps in the tractor. The clerk told me there were better ones that I should look at and proceeded to hand me a 55 watt halogen with a base the same as the backup lamps. I bought both and tried them in the tractor and what a difference. The backup lamps worked real good...plenty of light but the halogen lights were like turning the sun back on. Granted...Kubotas design of the reflector is not the greatest but with these new bulbs it makes a world of difference over the 23 watt bulbs that are original equip. The backup bulbs were $1.99 each and the halogen ones were $7.99 each which sure beats $50-$60 for a pair of good driving lights and then the installation. If you are interested and can't find the bulbs at your local auto parts store, I would be willing to send anyone a set (You pay, I send). E-Mail me here if you can't find them and we can work out the details.
Can't wait till it gets really dark so I can go out and play....er..work.
Dale
 
   / B2710 Lights #2  
DaleW, there's no doubt that will give you brighter lights, but two 55 watt bulbs are sure pushing the 10 amp capacity of the fuse for the headlights (55 watts x 2 = 110 watts/12 volts = 9.1666667 amps through a 10 amp fuse). I like a little more "cushion" than that, so I don't reckon I'll be upgrading bulbs quite that much. Of course, I put lights on my canopy frame, one to the front and one to the rear, so I can add light if needed, and it's above the front end loader.

Be sure you have a spare headlight fuse, know where the fuse is, and have a flashlight to change the fuse in the dark./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird
 
   / B2710 Lights #3  
Glad to see someone can still do a little math these days. Please tell me you didn't need a calculator, Bird. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
John
 
   / B2710 Lights
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Bird,
I hate it when you are right and you are right this time about the current rating. I went back out and replaced the halogen bulbs with the high intensity backup bulbs which are rated at 50 watts each. 50 X 2 = 100 / 12 = 8.33333 amps which gives me a little leeway on the 10 amp fuse.
Thanks for the heads up.....I guess I was just so happy with the new bulbs that I was "Blinded by the Light"
Dale
 
   / B2710 Lights #5  
Lets assume that the alternator is producing 13.5 volts with the engine running. Will the lights pull less amps or provide more wattage?
 
   / B2710 Lights #6  
John, I can still handle simple math like that in my head, but with a calculator right next to a computer . ., well, I'm getting lazier all the time./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

And geneP, I just know a little bit about electricity (what is they say about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing?). So I don't really know the answer to your question, but I think in this particular scenario, the wattage would increase. And of course, instead of 13.5 volts, my B2710 is actually putting 14.3 volts to the battery at 1200 or more RPMs. Maybe one of our electrical experts will tell us the right answer to your question./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird
 
   / B2710 Lights #7  
gene,

It is not a function of the generator voltage. It is a function of the voltage at the bulb. If the lamp voltage is higher than the rated voltage, then it will pull proportionally more current. In general, the lamp voltage will run very close to rated due to losses in the wiring for the alternator and for the lamp. To make matters even worse, the lamp is not a linear load so to be absolutely sure, you would have to actually measure the current flowing in the circuit.
 
   / B2710 Lights #8  
Less amps same watts. A watt is a watt but the amp draw will differ by a VERY small amout. The higher the volts the lower the amps and the lower the volts the higher the amps. But any circiut should be figured with 12 volts as the factor--what happens with a very close figured circiut when you have the lights on and the tractor not running--As Bird said have a flashlight and know where the fuse panel is.
Gordon
 
   / B2710 Lights #9  
Well....everyone is a little bit correct. Hang on for the ride………..

The fact of the matter is that the current draw is dependant on the resistance of the bulb's filament, and the applied voltage. Similarly, the bulb's wattage consumption is also related to these quantities.

In order to calculate what current draw the bulb will experience at a different voltage (i.e. 12V or 13.6), we need to first determine the only fixed quantity....the bulb's filament resistance. We have two methods available to us; measurement and calculation. Both present their own unique challenges.

Because it may be difficult to determine the voltage that the manufacture based the bulb's wattage rating on, it's probably easier (and better) to actually measure the bulb's filament resistance. At first, it would seem easy enough....simply read the resistance using a Volt-Ohm meter. Problem is, the resistance may be such a low value (i.e. <2 ohms), that the VOM may not be able to give an accurate measurement. Instead, we need to measure the voltage (at the bulb's terminals) and the current draw. Let's assume we measure the following values:

Voltage (V) = 13.6 volts
Current (I) = 7.1 amps

Here, the equation P = V x I will yield the ACTUAL bulb wattage (i.e. 13.6 x 7.1 = 96.56 Watts). Don't be surprised if you can't get the numbers to equal the manufacturer's 100 watt number (higher or lower). First, we don't know what voltage he used for rating the bulb. Second, there are manufacturing tolerances which effect the bulb's actual wattage capability. (That's why it's better to actually do measurements.)

In any case....now we've got the voltage, current and power at 13.6 volts. In order to calculate the current and wattage parameters at 12V, we need the bulb filament resistance. We can determine that from the values we collected at 13.6V as follows.

Voltage (V) = Current (I) x Resistance (R), or…..R=V/I

For our example R = 13.6Volts / 7.1Amps = 1.915 Ohms (See what I said about the low value.)

Now, we can calculate what the bulb will do at 12V as follows:

Current (I) = Voltage (V) / Resistance (R) = V/R = 12 / 1.915 = 6.27 amps

Power (P) = Voltage (V) x Current (I) = 12 x 6.27 = 75.24 Watts

Notice the sizable change in wattage. That’s because the wattage changes with the square of the voltage. Lower the voltage by half, and the wattage goes down by a factor of four. Some examples for our 1.915 ohm bulb would be as follows:

Voltage = 6 Wattage = 18.80
Voltage = 6.75 Wattage = 23.79
Voltage = 12 Wattage = 75.20
Voltage = 12.5 Wattage = 81.59
Voltage = 13 Wattage = 88.25
Voltage = 13.5 Wattage = 95.17

So….what we see is that both, the current draw and wattage go up (or down) depending on the applied voltage. The only constant is the bulb resistance.

Work of Caution #1: If you do the calc’s and shave it too close (like 9.2 amps on a 10 amp fuse), the next replacement bulb may have a slightly different current/wattage product than the original unit. Just as you did, a comfortable safety margin is always good.

Word of Caution #2: Upping the wattage can cause other problems, not associated with your electrical system. The bulb connector (socket) and lamp housing may not be able to sustain the dramatic increase in heat buildup associated with the higher wattage. Be careful, I’d hate to see the front of your tractor melting over the front wheels!! Laugh now, I’ve seen lots of guys do it to their prized cars and boats.

Whew….even I got tired reading this. Sorry about that. I hope it helps. Please note that I took the long path to go through this, there are other derivations of the core equations which would have gotten the same results quicker, but not as clearly.

Happy Tractoring!
 
   / B2710 Lights #10  
Good point Wen about it being a linear load.
Gordon
 
   / B2710 Lights #11  
Thanks, people seldom take all the resistance of the wiring into consideration, but nominals are close enough for most tractor wiring. I am an electrical engineer, but don't tell anyone. Unfortunately, the bulbs resistance is very non linear with applied voltage and does not lend itself to conventional linear analysis.
 
   / B2710 Lights #12  
Now Wen lets see if I can get it right this time---
Good post Wen about the bulb not being a linear load.

I figured that if I went back and edited my post you might look crazy but this way I look crazy. But I forgot the word- not -in the first post.
Gordon
 
   / B2710 Lights #13  
Thanks, and it was even harder to answer it that way, but I knew what you meant. Now what I really want is some auxillary lights that are mounted on the canopy that I don't have. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
   / B2710 Lights #14  
And if you do, I wired my pair of 55w canopy floods directly to the battery using 16-gauge wire and an in-line 15a fuse. However, the location of lights on canopies should be considered. I broke off the rear light the first time I used the carriage tilt on my 3ph forks. I also nearly damaged the front one going under an icy covered tree branch that was no problem before the light was mounted.

I think the discussion about the complexities of running a marginally high electric load is interesting. Mention hasn't been made of perhaps the biggest resistance variable in the system--the battery itself. The state of the battery is going to make a difference in how much voltage a bulb sees. Tractors have big batteries and small alternators.

Anyway, a few surges that pop fuses isn't going to make much difference. Practically, perhaps the best idea is to just try it out and see if a fuse blows enough to be aggravating. If it does, maybe a slow blow type is available that would be consistent with a warranty. Circuit protection in circuit design (at least in residential wiring) is to protect the wire, not the connected devices. Damage to wire from excessive heat dissipation is a long-term idea except for the case of unprotected short circuits.
 
   / B2710 Lights #15  
I guess everyone knows, from previous discussions, that there is already a wire and connector under the seat on the B2710 for a worklight and it's fused with a 10 amp fuse. I used that to mount a 55 watt halogen light at the front of the canopy and one at the rear, mounted to the frame so they are actually back under the edge of the canopy. And I used a toggle switch so that either light can be on, but not both at the same time. Incidentally, that wire and fuse are through the ignition switch so they can't accidentally be left on if the key is off.

Bird
 
   / B2710 Lights #16  
wiring loads through the ignition switch should be done with caution. Although the tractors' lights are originally wired through the switch, adding more than the switch is rated for could lead to premature failure. I don't know if the OEM lights are wired through a relay, but a cautions approach would be to have the igniton switch trigger a relay so as not to burn the contacts on the ign. switch.
 
   / B2710 Lights #17  
Tom,

Try not to ever use slow blows on tractors. They are intended only for motor load and can carry a tremendous surge and may fail to adequately protect the wiring under a short circuit condition. They should never be used for lighting loads. The solution is easy as pie if you need more current, use a power relay and run a line with an in-line fuse directly from the battery. You can activate the relay with the lighting switch or key switch.

Alternators are designed to be slightly larger than the lighting load such that the battery condition should not affect the voltage very much. However, that said, most circuits charge directly to the battery and then take the branch circuits from a heavy wire to the battery. Thus most of the higher alternator output never gets to the load for a properly charged battery.
 
   / B2710 Lights
  • Thread Starter
#18  
Boy what a wealth of knowledge out there for a simple little thing as changing a light bulb. Frank..thanks for taking the time and writing your reply..very informative.
And thanks to all you other folks who took the time to respond. I have left the 50w back up lights in and find them to work very well.
Canopy lights are next on my agenda but that's another post at another time
Dale
 
   / B2710 Lights #19  
geneP, I certainly don't disagree with anything you said, and it's good advice in a lot of cases. I'm not concerned about it in this particular case because it's OEM wiring, fuse, etc. for an OEM optional "worklight" described in the owners manual.

Bird
 
   / B2710 Lights #20  
Thanks for the basic "5 minute" electrical course.
 

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