B2400 starting problem finally solved

[brentrieman]

I had the same issue with our BX2200 for over 2 years. Had it to the dealer twice but it wouldnt act up for them. They just said I wasnt starting it right, b/c you know after 10 years I suddenly forgot how to start it. Anyway 10 min on google I found this thread. Picked up the kit from a JD dealer and 15min later the kubota starts the first time every time. Its never going back to that dealer again.

Thanks

 

[EastTexFrank]

Well, I must be the laziest son-of-a-gun on this board. 10-years ago I wrote that my B2400 was getting hard to start and I need to look into this fix.

Well, here we are 10 years later and the B2400 is still hard to start. As I said 'way back when, it's more annoying that serious but she still starts eventually and still runs great. In the imterim I completely forgot about this simple fix. Thank you to whoever bumped this thread. I'll get back to you in another 10-years and tell you how it worked out.

 

[Mike in VT]

I'm glad I found this thread. I've had no problems starting my B2400 for the 3 years I've owned it, but suddenly today it won't start - the solenoid doesn't even click. I measured about 5 V getting to the solenoid when I turn the switch, and the starter engages fine when I jump directly from the battery to the solenoid, so I believe this fix will take care of my problem.

I hope to be able to report another satisfied customer in a week or so, after the relay arrives.

 

[mikesmithfl]

Hi All,

Since this thread should be immortal, I'll jump in too.

I've got a B series with same symptoms - a B7620, but have a question. Isn't this fix bypassing the original starter relay for the thing? Why not just replace the original starter relay with a low voltage relay?

I haven't dug into it very much yet, I found this thread first (how LUCKY for me !!) before replacing the battery, starter solenoid, starter etc. I'm sure glad my K is stuck in the back of a lineup of things to get out of the way, or I wouldn't have decided to investigate/Google for an answer. I mean, it's just plain obvious - it MUST be the battery!

Thanks once more kubmech!

I'm going to do some digging to find out more - so I may come up with an answer to my own question above. Like, I'm already thinking - maybe this beast doesn't have a starter relay before the solenoid? Or, it's been put in a nice safe place where you can only reach it with a special dealer-only tool? etc.

 

[Mike in VT]

This fix doesn't bypass the original starting relay - the new low-voltage relay is used to engage the original relay.

As for replacing the original with a low-voltage one, it may be that it's more expensive to buy a low-voltage relay that can handle the current of the starter motor compared to one that only has to power the solenoid (but I'm just guessing).

Also, I'm pleased to report that my tractor has been starting reliably since I install the low voltage relay a few weeks ago.

 

[mikesmithfl]

Great news about the reliable starting. I hope I'm in the same crowd soon.

Do you (or anyone) know where the black/white lead comes from? I thought it must have come from the starter relay to activate the solenoid, but from the component diagrams at the Kubota site, I can't identify which items connect to what. If anybody knows of any wiring diagrams or schematics they'd sure come in handy...

(they do make it hard to get into these, don't they ;-)

 

[qbc3]

I have a Lastec 3372 with a 33 HP Kubota diesel engine. Same problem as most posts; that is, it clicks when I turn and release the ignition switch key. Cleaned battery posts and cables and also the battery ground connection. I'm hoping the modification kit will work for my situation. Does anyone know how to specifically get to the KubotaMech post referred to earlier in this thread. When I click on the link given, it does not take me to the post???

 

[tomf]

Does anyone know how to specifically get to the KubotaMech post referred to earlier in this thread. When I click on the link given, it does not take me to the post???

I think this might be the thread for which you are looking (post #18): http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/40814-b2400-starter-problem-2.html

 

[bj7231]

Here is a link to Kubmech's post.
Click Here
Sure is great to have him post. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm new here ...I clicked the link but I do not see the post?
Thanks
Bj

 

[brentrieman]

I'm new here ...I clicked the link but I do not see the post?
Thanks
Bj

This is what is in the post, the only reason I took the time to do this is b/c i was ripping my hair out when I had this issue with my BX2200, the kubota dealer had the tractor twice and didnt figure it out. The Kubota let me down a couple times when I really needed it and I had to drag it onto a trailer with a ratchet strap. I bought the kit from a John Deer dealer and have had no problems for since. going on 4 years.

origional post by kumech

Frank, heres the bottom line..Power flows from your ignition switch through your PTO, neutral and clutch safety switches.
To the starter solenoid (black/white wire??) When all the switches and battery etc. are new there is very little resistance.
After you get some time and some age in these components resistance builds up and eventually will cause a voltage drop by the time it gets to the starter solenoid. This voltage drop will vary according to temperature, humidity and other factors.
That's why some times it'll work and other times it wont. The starter solenoid needs approx. 9 volts to fully engage. Anything less and it wont fully make contact to send power to run the starter motor. Yes it will click, but needs just a little more "oomph" to fully seat on the contacts and allow the starter motor portion to run. Now instead of replacing all the components in the system to reduce the voltage drop. What you need to do is install a starter relay. Most, if not all modern machines have this feature now because of this very problem. Some companies figured this out a bit sooner than others and came up with a pre-wired relay kit with instructions (John Deere and Scag I know for sure). Now some guys like to do things on there own and run down to NAPA and get a regular low voltage relay or a good old fashion starter solenoid, wire it up themselves and fix this problem, which works just fine. However the good old fashion starter solenoids still need close to 9 volts to engage and still causes some problems. The low voltage relay is the best way to go.. I think it will work with as low as 4 volts. In my experience the easiest way to go, is to install the JD kit part #
AM107421. It's, like I said, prewired and comes with instructions and it's around 15-20 bucks. Basically the way it works is... The red wire goes to the Battery terminal of the starter, the black wire goes to ground. You plug the black/white lead that would normally go to your starter to the male purple connector of the relay and the female connector purple lead to the starter. I have solved this "mysterious" problem many, many times on all brands and models of older machines with this kit. Everyone has given great suggestions for making sure your basic electrical system is sound and in proper working order. Most times when all else checks out and I have verified that voltage to the starter solenoid is a little low or questionable, installing this kit solves the problem at least 99% of the time. I'd be willing to bet it will work in your case as well. On rare occasions I have torn down the starter to find the contacts bad in the solenoid when this kit would not solve the problem. However for the price of the kit it's more than worth a shot in my opinion..................

 

[Jbfla]

Eleven years after the first post in this thread and it is still helping people. :thumbsup:

The JD relay kit fixed the starting problem on my B2400.

jb

 

[davesl708]

Wow. Just happened upon this thread. My 03 BX2200 starter has had similar issues. Just thought it was getting bad but after a tear down, cleaning and dressing up the contactors the issue is still there on occasion.

I will give Mr. kubmech's fix a try. Even if low voltage is not the problem now it may well be in the near future.

Thanks Mr. kubmech.

 

[virvis]

Kubota l4200. Though for sure the John Deere relay kit would fix it but still get the same issue. turn key, click or slow crank and nothing. Thinking it must be the starter selenoid but I'm unsure how to pinpoint that before taking the starter off. Any suggestions?

thanks

 

[Jbfla]

Thought I would add pictures to my original Post, but am unable to edit.

Relay mounted to alternator bolt:



Relay wiring:





I was also curious if the safety switches would be bypassed using the JD relay kit.

The gear lever (hydro transmission) still needs to be in the neutral position.

The PTO lever still needs to be in the disconnect position.

But I no longer have to depress the clutch pedal to start the engine.

jb

 

[h2oskier62]

Today I installed the John Deere relay kit on a Kubota TG 1860 and it has solved starting problems I have had for 10 years. The part costs $35 today. I really like the tractor but the Kubota dealer has looked at it multiple times and could never fix this starting issue. They just kept replacing the relay, battery, starter, etc...generating many large repair bills but never fixing the problem for more than a couple days. Thanks so much to Kubmech for the exact part and directions. I fixed this issue on my own in 15 mins.

 

[Dale Binkley]

I appreciate the good photos that several have included. Add my 17 year old B2100 to the list of "starting like brand new" tractors. I procrastinated this to death - read about it a couple years ago, bought the relay last fall and FINALLY installed it 2 days ago. Not one starting miss since then. My grandson was impressed that I fixed the tractor, but is glad that he no longer has to bump the key a few times to get her going. Thanks to all!

 

[skyhook]

Here's a direct link for the instruction's in pdf format, the pics are a little off but at the end of the pdf, there's a schematic diagram that may help some.

http://www.greenpartstore.com/assets/images/bulletins/2011/am107421_instructions.pdf

 

[borgunit]

Just adding this from very original post:

AM107421. It's prewired and comes with instructions.

Basically the way it works is...

The red wire goes to the Battery terminal of the starter.

The black wire goes to ground.

You plug the black/white lead that would normally go to your starter to the male purple connector of the relay.

The female connector purple lead to the starter.

 

[VRSW]

This thread was extremely helpful to me! Thanks for everyone who has posted this info here! I figured that since you all helped me solve this problem, I can do my part to add to this post.

My B2400 had this very same problem.....turn the key and all you get is a click.....no start. After finding this post, I called up my local JD dealer and asked if they have the relay kit in stock. They did, so I made the trip over to pick it up. I'm looking at this relay and it looks to me like a standard 12v relay....I build cars for a living and I use relays exactly like this on a daily basis. I ask the parts guy....."is there anything special about this relay or is this a standard 12v relay?" The parts guy says that there is nothing at all special about it.....just a standard 12v relay. It's not even a weatherpack relay.....it's just like this one:

VIAIR 4 Amp Relay-9394 - The Home Depot

You can buy this same style of relay from home depot, ebay, radio shack or your local parts store for under $5. JD was going to charge me $37 plus tax. I already had dozens of these type of relay on the shelf in my shop, so I grabbed one and installed it this morning. Instant fix to the problem. The problem was getting really bad to the point that it was taking 5 to 10 turns of the key and getting "clicks" before I could get it to crank every time I went to start the tractor. I installed the relay first thing this morning and used the tractor all day today....probably starting the tractor a dozen times or so and it never missed a beat once. The starter solenoid pulls quite a bit of current.....which is why resistance in that circuit causes the voltage to be low at the starter solenoid. Remove the current draw and you will still have 12 volts there. That is what the relay does.....removes the current draw in that circuit. Instead of the starter solenoid drawing...say.....5 amps, the relay coil that closes the relay only draws about 0.2 amp. This is why the relay fixes the problem. Calling it a "low voltage relay" is not really accurate. It's just a standard relay that fixes a low voltage problem caused by high current draw.

All of these relays have the terminals labeled 85, 86, 30, 87.....and if it's a 5 post relay instead of just 4 (either will work) you will have a center terminal labeled 87a (which is not used). You would disconnect the solenoid wire and attach it to 85. Attach 86 to ground. Attach 30 to the main starter battery cable. Attach 87 to the starter solenoid.

 

[Coyote machine]

Hey Kubota guys: why not ask the admin to make this thread a 'sticky' for the Kubota Owning/operating forum? This way it's permanently there for all to refer to at the top of the forum's opening page?
Then anyone looking for a starting issue fix for their 'bota would likely see it before it disappears again into the thread chaos that eventually takes over most forums on TBN...