B2400 Beat at 400hrs?

[ckless]

I had a B2400 with 407 hours on it delivered today. Test drove it and the unit looked like it had been worked hard but seemed to be solid. It has 4wd, FEL, HST, and industrial tires. When I had it delivered to the property, I immediately began to push sand piles around, some small trees, etc. No power whatsoever...the HST whined and the tires never spun, even on pine needles and sand. In high it wouldn't even move in sand. I took it to the bottom of the hill(25deg maybe) and I barely made it up in low at full throttle. The dealer said they've had good luck with the hydros but this is my first and it would appear this machine has been done in by the previous owner. Also noticed that the FEL dropped on it's own, with or without power. I called the dealer and they came back out to pick it up but I'm definitely having second thoughts on this one. BTW, the unit was a '98 for $11k. Is that OK if the machine was good? Thanks for your replies in advance...

 

[GlueGuy]

If it's the first time running an HST, don't forget that you don't get "more power" by pressing harder on the pedal. When goiing up hill in high range, I usually have to "back off" the HST pedal a little to keep the RPM up and get up the hill.

The HST pedal is not a gas pedal, it is a torque-transfer pedal, and you actually get more power by pressing more lightly.

The GlueGuy

 

[r0GuE]

I'm surprised the dealer didn't find this problem during his extensive pre-sale inspection. I'd walk away... way far away. You could get a new BX for the same money.

Rogue

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I agree with Rogue... You now have a perfect opportunity to run not walk away...

I've said it before... if I end up with a lemon... for a few thousand dollars... shame on me.{the buyer}

For many thousands of dollars... shame on you. {the seller}

For $11k, you can find a new unit a dealer would be begging you to take... maybe you won't get a FEL... so pay extra for it... even an extra $3000. over twenty years is spit compared to potential problems you don't need.

Model Horsepower/Engine Transmission Factory List Price
B7500HSD
4 wheel drive 21.0 Diesel Hydrostatic $11,730.00
B2410HSE
2 wheel drive 24.0 Diesel Hydrostatic $12,680.00
B2410HSD
4 wheel drive 24.0 Diesel Hydrostatic $14,280.00
B2710HSD
4 wheel drive 27.0 Diesel Hydrostatic $15,500.00
B2910HSD
4 wheel drive 30.0 Diesel Hydrostatic $16,580.00

 

[frank_f15]

as luck would have it, this past winter i bought a 98 b2400 with only 68 hours on it, fel, 4wd, hst, back blade and finish mower. i paid slightly over your price. i have had no problems. i think mabe y u should walk away. sounds like to many problems for only 400 hrs.

 

[glennmac]

Forget it, even if the dealer offers to "fix" it. A properly maintained tractor should have no problems with that many hours. Something's wrong with its history, and you'll never know what else is about to break.

 

[ckless]

Thanks for the input...I am taking a hard look and very likely will go the few extra k for a new one but...I did get an update from the Service Mgr. He said the valve body for the loader was bypassing fluid or was otherwise defective. He explained that the entire hydraulic system in compact tractors(Kubota and other brands) rely on basically a closed system which are all tied together. If the loader valves were simply 'blowing-by' fluid, the hydro couldn't generate any power, thus the noise and lack of get-up-n-go. They're replacing the loader valve unit(at my request) with one from a new loader and I've asked that all hoses and fittings on the loader be replaced because I want to be sure I didn't have over-pressure(?) from the faulty valve body. I've also insisted on a 30-day return period if it fails again. They've also thrown in the box loader as recompense for my day off work(like any day off work and on a tractor, even a badly behaving one, is bad). Does any of this sound plausible? Or should I start lacing the running shoes again?
I've had friends tell me that hydros are very reliable, some even said they've had them 1000's of hours and years without issue. Since I have 2-3 acres of planted pine(row by row), hills, and pasture to mow, I found it's use to be very smooth with the loader and in the tight spaces between the trees even in the hour I had with this unit.

Thanks again for all the input...

 

[ckless]

Hmmm...as is probably the usual response, I pressed harder. I'll remember this advice. Thank you.

One question though. If I'm going uphill, especially in fwd in sand, would it be safe to assume that low would produce the best results? Especially with a FEL?

Thanks again...ck

 

[hayden]

It doesn't make sense to me. There are separate systems and pumps for the hydro and loader. The loader fluid comes from a pump mounted to the engine. Fluid flows to the loader, then to the 3PH to control implement height. A portion of the pump fluid flow is diverted to the power steering.

The hydro drive has it's own precharge pump and main pump, both of which are integral to the hydro housing. They suck fluid out of the same resevior in the hydro case, and dump it back in when used, but other than that they are independent systems.

You might ask yourself why the loader valve is shot? It's just a guess, but I woudl bet on crus in the fluid due to lack of maintenance. If this is the case, you can expect the same level of damage in the hydro.

I'd still run.

 

[hayden]

I had a B2400 for several years. In low range with the engine running at 1400 RPM or more, nothing should be able to stop the wheels from turning. It should move or spin the tires.

 

[BigE]

If you decide to try it out again, I would tax the hydro to it's limits. There should be only two things that happen when putting the drive under extreme load. 1- the tires slip. 2- the engine chokes off. It should not behave like the automatic transmition in your car.

 

[ronjhall]

Ckless
If dealer or previous owner used a power washer to clean tractor. There could be water in the Transmission oil. This would cause both systems to fail.

 

[r0GuE]

You never get a second chance to do it right the first time.
I know how your feeling right now and you want that mythical "good deal". FORGET IT!
Buy a new tractor and let some other poor ******* buy that problem child. 30 days won't cover you. It will go by in a heartbeat and you'll be living with a potential money pit.
The sweetness of a cheap price fades much faster than the bitterness of poor quality. (or something like that)
good luck!

Rogue

 

[ckless]

OK, OK, I can take a hint...;-)
I told the dealer to quote a new 2410 and FEL. Since they actually lowered pricing I figure the $$$ will buy a new one and the warranty and it'll cost the same over the life of the financing due to the lower rate. He offered a 7500 with FEL for about $12,200 w/DT but I'm not sure I want to give up the HP and the lbs. on the FEL. I'm gonna need the power, especially now when I'm clearing.

Carver looks like $14,500 for a 2410 w/FEL and I'm guessing that's a good starting point...

Thanks for the advice and for watching out for a newbie!

ck

 

[Anonymous Poster]

you're wrong about the operation of a tractor hydrostat. in high range the transmission will bypass before the tires spin or the engine stalls. this is true even on new tractors. continual bypassing will create enough heat to eventually damage the hydro. case in point the b2710 and b2910 have three speed rear ends to encourage users to stay out of high range while working. love them hydro's!