Loader B2320 Loader Issue?

[maximus1277]

I have a brand new B2320 with FEL and Woods B70X backhoe. This was my first weekend doing some "serious" work... mostly grading the back of my house where I needed to make and them move a few piles of dirt. Honestly, I am a bit disapointed.... the front end loader on this machine is not strong enough to get a full bucket of dirt. This is my 4th tractor and my third kubota and I have never experienced an issue like this. The loader can only lift enough for a flat bucket... it is nearly impossible to get a nice full load. Granted, the dirt was wet and mixed with grass roots, but still there should be enough power to slowly fill the bucket from a pile without the need for jerky movements of the stick. Does anyone else have the same issue? Second issue: the woods b70x was recommended over kubota backhoe. With subframe and backhoe I find the front end of the tractor to be too light.... it plows when turning or wheelies when starting in a higher gear. Does Kubota make weights for this machine which would work with FEL and the gril/hood protector?

 

[gyro433]

I have no issues with mine, but I don't have the backhoe

I am not sure if I understand your loader issue correctly, do you have problems filling your bucket because the tractor lacks traction to push into the pile, or when the bucket is full it will not lift up ?

 

[bp fick]

I do not have a backhoe, but I sure can visualize the front end being light if there were a backhoe on the rear. Yes, the front end is light on the 20 series B. It is a small, light tractor, front to back. I will also be putting some suitcase weights, or having some engineered, for the front. Yes, simply put. More front weight is required.

I mentioned this issue when middle buster plowing last fall, in my review of the tractor.

I have not yet attempted dirt, but I have had no power lifting issues with packed, heavy snow with the FEL.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

We do both the Woods and Kubota backhoes, the Woods is easier to remove, but the Kubota defentialy balances on the tractor much better.

 

[J_J]

maximus1277,

What is the advertised lift for the FEL? Maybe they set the relief valves low for a purpose.

 

[gyro433]

Your bucket capacity based on the operator's manual is:

Struck : 5.2 CU.FT. (capacity of your bucket if you would fill it with water to the rim)
Heaped : 6.2 CU.FT. (capacity of your bucket when material is heaped over the edge of your bucket, i.e. Full bucket)

Materials weight based on their density multiplied by the heaped capacity.

Wet clay excavated: 114 lbs per CU.FT x 6.2 = 706.8 lbs
Earth dense : 125 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 775 lbs
Earth excavated wet : 100 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 620 lbs
Earth excavated dry : 78 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 484 lbs
Sand with gravel wet : 126 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 781 lbs
Stone crushed : 100 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 620 lbs
Snow freshly fallen : 10 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 62 lbs
Snow compacted : 30 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 186 lbs

The worse case being sand with gravel wet with a heaped bucket at 781 lbs.

Your breakout force at the tip of your bucket is rated at 1222 lbs and 1648 lbs at the pivot pin.
Your lift capacity is about 771 lbs to bring the bucket mid point.

We rarely have a completely full bucket, you should have no problems lifting it off the ground. In the worse case scenario you would be limited in lifting height maybe.

Do you rev up the RPM to get full hydraulic pump capabilities ? if you are, then something wrong with the valve adjustments possibly like JJ said.

Gyro

 

[ericdube]

Your bucket capacity based on the operator's manual is:

Struck : 5.2 CU.FT. (capacity of your bucket if you would fill it with water to the rim)
Heaped : 6.2 CU.FT. (capacity of your bucket when material is heaped over the edge of your bucket, i.e. Full bucket)

Materials weight based on their density multiplied by the heaped capacity.

Wet clay excavated: 114 lbs per CU.FT x 6.2 = 706.8 lbs
Earth dense : 125 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 775 lbs
Earth excavated wet : 100 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 620 lbs
Earth excavated dry : 78 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 484 lbs
Sand with gravel wet : 126 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 781 lbs
Stone crushed : 100 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 620 lbs
Snow freshly fallen : 10 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 62 lbs
Snow compacted : 30 lbs per CU.FT. x 6.2 = 186 lbs

The worse case being sand with gravel wet with a heaped bucket at 781 lbs.

Your breakout force at the tip of your bucket is rated at 1222 lbs and 1648 lbs at the pivot pin.
Your lift capacity is about 771 lbs to bring the bucket mid point.

We rarely have a completely full bucket, you should have no problems lifting it off the ground. In the worse case scenario you would be limited in lifting height maybe.

Do you rev up the RPM to get full hydraulic pump capabilities ? if you are, then something wrong with the valve adjustments possibly like JJ said.

Gyro

This is excellent information! Thanks for posting such a detailed answer.

 

[maximus1277]

Thank you all for the great answers.... I will do some more testing to better isolate the problem but I think the issue is with the weight I tried to lift. Wet clay when loaded manually to the top of the bucket is not an issue.... However, when trying to load the bucket by raising it from the bottom of a wet heavy dirt pile must be too much for the relief valve.... Even when I increase the revs. That is why if I pull away a bit from the pile the weight exerted on the loader is reduced and the loader lifts up. So in other words, a heaped bucket is ok, but trying to lift more than that will be too much for this machine.

 

[bp fick]

I understand better, I think. If you stick your bucket into a pile, you are not only lifting the dirt in the bucket, but also the weight of the dirt above the bucket, in the pile. Seems possible to have 2 or 3 times the pile weight above the bucket than it's lifting capability.

Perhaps others will comment.

 

[gyro433]

Maximus,

If you rev is up then you are getting closed to the limit if you dig into the wet pile at the bottom. One thing I do if I dig into a heavy pile is stop completely before lifting the loader. If you are pushing forward with the HST and lifting at the same time you lose capability. I stop then raise the FEL.

Gyro

 

[Mounted Madness]

I understand better, I think. If you stick your bucket into a pile, you are not only lifting the dirt in the bucket, but also the weight of the dirt above the bucket, in the pile. Seems possible to have 2 or 3 times the pile weight above the bucket than it's lifting capability.

Perhaps others will comment.

Another physics lesson and question I didn't realize I needed answered all in one.

I never thought about or considered the weight of the material above the material in the bucket. Kinda like a lightbulb (CFL?) moment. Always sensed the need to accomodate the material, but not the weight. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm !:thumbsup:

 

[gyro433]

Maximus,

I am really happy with my B2320, but I wish I had bought the B2620 instead just for the extra lift capacity. The LA364 which equips the B2620 and B2920 has a heaped capacity of 6.5 CU.FT. and a lift capability of about 1025 lbs to 1500mm (about 5 ft).

Therefore even with the heaviest material density normally used around properties such as Wet sand and gravel, (126 lbs per CU.FT. X 6.5 = 819 lbs), the LA364 has still about 200 lbs to spare compare to none on the smaller LA304. Is it worth the 1000.00$ difference, I guess it depends on your needs.

Gyro

 

[maximus1277]

I really like the B2320 as well... and this FEL lift capacity issue will only be a problem when I am pushing the machine to the limit. Thanks to all who commented... I will try to post some pictures soon.

 

[bp fick]

I've no regret, so far, with the B2320. I didn't buy it for it's FEL capability as other than snow, there's only compost and other non-taxing work I do with it. The LA304 seems well matched to the machine. I primarily bought the tractor for the gardens and when I am working out there, I don't even have the FEL on.

I feel the tractor is already too light for it's horsepower, so adding 26 or 29 would do me no good at all. What I do need is more weight, both for the dirt work and snow work. I shall be seeking to rectify that once spring is fully sprung and I can enjoy being out in my unheated shop. Front suitcase weights and filling rear tires are on the docket.

 

[nspec]

I've seen a lot of people drive into a pile with the bucket flat on the ground and then try to just lift it up. As was said before, you are trying to lift the whole pile until you break off a chunk - yes, even loose material.

The proper technique is to curl the bucket back a bit (much stronger pressure with the curl function, too) so that when you raise the boom up, you are 'slicing' upward with the cutting edge.

If you're machine can't lift a full bucket from a pile with the rpm's up there's a problem.

 

[maximus1277]

Yes, I tried several different ways to get the loader to "slice up" as I give it more RPM. That is how I learned on my prior machines to get a nice fully loaded bucket. Also, this is not an HST issue as my tractor has a manual transmission. I just went outside to closely inspect the loader - the hydraulic cylinders, lines and frame of this loader LA304 are fairly small, but well matched for the machine. The deal I got on this new leftover was impossible to beat - so no regrets here.

 

[Stihl22]

I have the same problem if its a problem, i am disapointed about the lifting capacity on the LA304, does anyone try to bost the PSI on the hydro pump to gain lifting capacity? I've seen some people on this forum that bost the pressure on their BX to help the loader work. If it was to redone i would buy a b2620. But when I lift the maximum weight with mine, even with filled rear tire, i found the rear end very unstable and the b2620 only weight 77 pounds more so I suspect a much more unstable tractor...

 

[BrierPatch]

the b2620 only weight 77 pounds more so I suspect a much more unstable tractor...

Actually the B2620 is not bad. I think the loader is almost over powered for the tractor, but I don't have filled rear tires and it seems fine with a mostly full bucket. It starts to become more sketchy the steeper down hill you go, but not as bad as I thought it would be with no rear weight.

I do have the same situation the OP mentioned. If I dig in to a pile of dirt or gravel and I am pushing into it as I lift the loader it will not lift. I have to back off or do the curl thing as well. So you may not be in that much different of a boat with a 2620.

 

[wdchyd]

IIRC, someone here on TBN mentioned that the LA364 will fit the B2320 but the dealers don't mention it (supposedly to get more upcharge $$).....

The big difference is the cyl bore/rod sizes are larger and the gpm's are more on the B2620/B2920 (larger pumps).....

but the LA364 will bolt up the same way as the LA304.......I may be wrong but there was a thread about this last year......

Kinda late after you've already purchased the LA304 like me.....would've liked to have the option.......

 

[Stihl22]

IIRC, someone here on TBN mentioned that the LA364 will fit the B2320 but the dealers don't mention it (supposedly to get more upcharge $$).....

The big difference is the cyl bore/rod sizes are larger and the gpm's are more on the B2620/B2920 (larger pumps).....

but the LA364 will bolt up the same way as the LA304.......I may be wrong but there was a thread about this last year......

Kinda late after you've already purchased the LA304 like me.....would've liked to have the option.......

Yeah i discovert that forum after i buy it, If i have read some post like it probably i would buy a b2620. But i will run it for a few years a probably buy a l32 or l34 after that.

What is the capacity of the front axcel of a b2320 or 2620? i want to see if i have a littel margin to try to bost the pressure to help improve capacity.


Sorry for my english I am a fench canadian from quebec province and i have some problem to express me clearly!