Auger won't drill hard clay

[5030]

The answer is of course a hydraulic post driver. Don't matter what is down there, the post goes in and no backfill or Quick Crete needed either. Of course, compared to a PHD the price is a lot more but there is no issue with insertion.

 

[rangerfredbob]

Thats a great suggestion imo , even though for some it might not be affordable or cost efficient . I just always wondered though about the damage to a t post or wooden post when they hit good solid rock .

Post Hole Driver Shaver Saver Demo - YouTube



Totally spot on also ! :thumbsup: I used as good as 3 point PHD 's made except the homemade one's made from rear ends and what I can't stand is the constant turning around body and neck twisting that goes with it setting it up even with the ground marked to drill the holes .

BTW here's a pic of TBN member"s "MouseField"s home made rear end unit .

I don't think that's so much as home made as a modified Rears "Hole Hog". My brother has two of them, they're not very common especially outside of this area (made in Eugene Oregon), pretty sure they were made in the 60's to early 70's, the casting on the one we used says the rear end was a Chrysler 8.something. There's some giveaways, the U frame with the ball mount to the top link, the original loop for the bottom links, and the diff looks modified the same...

I don't have any input of the original problem, we drilled 14 2' diameter holes 4 feet deep with the ol hole hog and the only hole we had problems with had lumber in it... the clay we were digging was saturated good enough to plug up the auger quick at times.

 

[ning]

The first set of holes I dug about a month ago went great - the 9" auger sank fast and it was wonderful. Unfortunately the ground has dried enough that even two feet down there's no moisture and a new 6" auger goes nowhere.

I hung 340# off the back of it and the added downforce didn't help.

Buying a hydraulic unit for the front or a hydraulic pounder I'm sure would work, but fortunately I only need about 20 more holes this summer so a purchase wouldn't be reasonable economically.

Best I'm finding is to start the hole with the 6", use a digging bar to break things up, and go manual from there with the occasional auger attempt. Next batch of holes, I'm going to try starting with the auger and then soak the holes for a few days and see if that helps at all, and see if maybe I can find a long 1/2" auger at a yard sale to help get the water into that layer better.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[5030]

New use for dumbell weight plates.............:laughing:

 

[Fallon]

Pengo carbide frost teeth are useless in clay, ask me how I know... The ones I had were at thick & as sharp as my thumb. Doing stupid thing for a couple hundred lbs of down force did nothing. Finally got a cheap farm store 6" auger & drilled pilot holes fine. Enlarged them with the 9" Pengo. Finally wised up & replaced the teeth with relatively thin dirt teeth & it worked fine. A cheap auger with thin sharp teeth will outdig a better quality auger with not sharp teeth.

I still have the 9" Pengo with a 2" round drive even though I now have a hydraulic SSQA PHD that takes 2" hex now. It's a beefy auger way stronger than the farm store ones. I sold off the cheap 2" round farm store augers with the PTO PHD. May get a round to hex adapter if I can't sell it for what its worth.


My QH mods gave me down pressure from the hydraulic toplink for a little over a foot. Not in the photo is a 200lbs chunk of steel mounted right over the gearbox held on with that handle. Both of those helped out a lot, but I upgraded to a hydraulic SSQA PHD when I upgraded to the new tractor. Not a massive increase but its an improvement in usability if not digging power.

 

[rScotty]

Way back in message #@, RJ suggested throwing some gravel into the hole. I wonder if anyone ever tried that trick and how it worked? It sounded good to me, because it seems like some hard sharp fractured gravel might help to tear up the clay. We don't have clay here - except for a few cherished little pockets of mostly sticky blue clay. So I don't know much except to use the right tip angle, lots of pressure, and very, very slow rotation.

If the gravel trick doesn't work, I'd agree with others to take a close look at the post hole drill bit for the angle that the tip and the cutting edge makes with the hard clay. Like any drillbit, if sharp but held at the wrong angle all they can do is skate.

When carbide won't cut clay even with lots of pressure and dead slow rotation, then what else could it be except the cutting angle?
rScotty

 

[CoyPatton]

Way back in message #@, RJ suggested throwing some gravel into the hole. I wonder if anyone ever tried that trick and how it worked? It sounded good to me, because it seems like some hard sharp fractured gravel might help to tear up the clay. We don't have clay here - except for a few cherished little pockets of mostly sticky blue clay. So I don't know much except to use the right tip angle, lots of pressure, and very, very slow rotation.

If the gravel trick doesn't work, I'd agree with others to take a close look at the post hole drill bit for the angle that the tip and the cutting edge makes with the hard clay. Like any drillbit, if sharp but held at the wrong angle all they can do is skate.

When carbide won't cut clay even with lots of pressure and dead slow rotation, then what else could it be except the cutting angle?
rScotty

rScotty
Have you ever tried (even with a very good carbide concrete bit) to drill 40+ year old brick or block or concrete pad with a regular drill? (Not the mortar but the actual brick or concrete preferably a smooth sided brick or smooth for comparison)
Since you have no experience with clay, that is the best reference I can suggest.
Even a cheap hammer drill may not get it done! (Been there done that also). Even putting your body weight against some those well cured concrete pads/walls just doesn’t get it done with that regular drill. The downforce suggestions are like getting a low end hammer drill—if you keep at, change bits and do burn the drill up from frustrations (ask me how I know!) you can eventually get it done.
I wish I knew the answer for using the mechanical PHD for that hole. The solution for the concrete drilling is a true hammer drill usually getting into SDS style bits (a couple of different ones available). Once you use one of these drills (capable of just a hammer function for chisels and other bits) you will never want a regular drill for concrete again!

 

[Diggin It]

^^^ Reminds me of trying to get my gate posts into my many years compacted red rock gravel. Neighbor came over with his 4020 and large PHD. Got no where. Not even a couple of inches. I ended up buying an air chisel and punching in a few inches at a time, then lifting the spoils out. Took half a day to get down 18-20". I wanted to go deeper, but the chisel bit wasn't long enough to work deeper.

 

[grsthegreat]

Just rent a skidsteer and post auger for a part day. Get er done.

 

[grsthegreat]

I have a hydraulic assist down pressure unit for my speeco 3 point auger. Helps out alot. But i have limited amount of clay on my property.

Dry clay is like concrete.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

I don't think that's so much as home made as a modified Rears "Hole Hog". My brother has two of them, they're not very common especially outside of this area (made in Eugene Oregon), pretty sure they were made in the 60's to early 70's, the casting on the one we used says the rear end was a Chrysler 8.something. There's some giveaways, the U frame with the ball mount to the top link, the original loop for the bottom links, and the diff looks modified the same....

That is a modified Rears.
Completely indestructible.
I bought mine used with decades of daily hard use.
That was 30 years ago.
Best PHD ever made in my opinion.

 

[rangerfredbob]

It was pretty impressive drilling 2' diameter holes in one shot, the Ford 4600 had enough 3 point lift to bend the beams lifting clay out of the holes, and took some modification to get 4' of digging capacity and the U joint at the diff didn't appreciate that...

 

[Rebeldad1]

The first set of holes I dug about a month ago went great - the 9" auger sank fast and it was wonderful. Unfortunately the ground has dried enough that even two feet down there's no moisture and a new 6" auger goes nowhere.
View attachment 660599View attachment 660603

So if you can drill with the 6" why not go right back down then with the 9"???

You can make your own 1/2 or larger drill bit longer by welding it to some roundbar. Used to make these all the time for drilling bridge deck to bolt together.

 

[grsthegreat]

Our only good times to drill post holed is right after snow melts and then we have 1-2 months of great soil. Then its very hard and discouraging even to pound a t post.

 

[drizler]

Pour some water in the hole and let it sit for awhile. Then try to auger again.

That痴 the ticket. Soften it up.
Just don稚 let it screw itself into the ground . We have clay here and twice I致e had to unhook the auger and hand dig all the way down to free it.. not fun. If it starts screwing itself in yank it up fast and clear the hole out. Quick and easy vs. slow and miserable.

 

[ning]

So if you can drill with the 6" why not go right back down then with the 9"???

You can make your own 1/2 or larger drill bit longer by welding it to some roundbar. Used to make these all the time for drilling bridge deck to bolt together.

you'll note i said the new 6" goes nowhere. been there, tried that.

 

[CoyPatton]

you'll note i said the new 6" goes nowhere. been there, tried that.

I really am at a lost for suggestions of using a PHD in hard clay. While as I commented it is similar to drilling cured concrete when baked hard—I would not recommend the hammer drill type activity on either your tractor’s 3PH or the PHD. If only a few holes, you would probably not be using a PHD to begin with, constant down pressure does little (personal experience knowledge).
While it helps little, the best suggestion is yo really plan your times to drill the holes—I know hard to do when you need the fence or whatever when you are in a dry season of the year or a wet season as then clay gives you entirely different conditions (and not better for drill holes).
One other thought
Get a generator that will run an electric jack hammer (or a compressor/generator that will run a jack hammer) or a hammer drill with a hammer only function, get some round stock to make a chisel long enough to reach down in the hole and use that to break up the hard clay. If only a few inches thick it should help, if thickness is in feet—IDK!!!

 

[cdaigle430]

I would also suspect that if you were successful and it got stuck it would be a nightmare to get out-I have experienced this . I also have hard clay and for parts that i need a hole I end up using my backhoe. Its still a PITA because the bucket will fill up with hard clay and its very difficult to clear it out.

I tried modifications with a thick wire so that when the bucket is curled full open it slices through the clay like a wire cutting cheese. So for me the best advice is to using a BH with a small bucket to get it done. Yes the hole will be bigger than what you need but it will be less of a hassle to fill it back in.

 

[Birdhunter1]

Last year I was building a leanto off of my barn and I had to drill some holes when it was super dry and my gas powered 10" wouldn't even scrape dust once it got down about 12" deep. Since it was right next to the barn I got the water hose and a pressure washer and bored them out using high pressure water. I made the hole big enough to barely drop a 4x4 in, used ,y loader to push down and bottom it out and poured a bag of concrete in. Framed up off of those posts what I needed to do and a year later they are still solid.
I figured they horizontal bore lines for hundreds of feet with a machine using high pressure water and use a pothole machine to find buried lines so I figure it would work, it did.

 

[Smokeydog]

I was Rural King yesterday picking up a water trough and looked at their new post hole diggers and augers thinking of this topic. All had twist points and blunt teeth. They might dig in the valley but not on my clay hillsides. My old Ford 3pt phd will dig anything you can dig by hand, thru the toughest clay, shale and rocks. Screw point and sharp teeth. Biggest problem getting stuck by drilling down too fast. You only do this once hopefully to learn your lesson. Blisters help you learn faster. I go slow and watch the bit feed. Only speed up to sling the spoils off the flights to clear the hole.
I remember the bins of different cutter teeth and points at Co-op with knowledgeable people to help you. Not so much now. Use the right tool the right way.