ATTN CK20 OWNERS: Question

shoppintractors · Dec 2, 2004

I did some research on this dual dump issue. What I found out is....

"It is only intended to work if THERE IS A HEAVY LOAD IN THE BUCKET.....it won't work(depending on tractor loader config) when empty. It is meant that the weight will make the bucket dump faster than pure hydraulic power, so you can slowly dump using the first position and if the bucket is loaded go all the way over and "quick dump". "First notch...hydraulic pressure, second gravity."

I enlisted the help of a CK30 owner to test this theory. He tried this method with a heavy load in the bucket and confirms it DID dump faster after the first detente. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Don /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

cdt80 · Dec 2, 2004

Go ahead shoppintractors, you can say it was me. When shoppintractors contacted me it was like a lightbulb went off. Kiotijohn... all you guys were right. The first position of the joystick is hydraulic pressure dumping the bucket. The next position farther right is like full float. It seems to me like it works sort of like the loader. Power it down when empty or cold hydraulics and it is faster than float position going down. However, with a full bucket float is faster.
Nice research shoppintractors.
You know all the talk earlier about the 2x4 makes me wonder if we used the 2x4 correctly. Maybe it should have been used to bonk me on the head to restart my brain. Anyway, now we know.

shoppintractors · Dec 2, 2004

Hey......were all in this together and we got good company. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Don

KiotiJohn · Dec 3, 2004

Okay, now it makes more sense why it seemed the frist position was so fast, but I get pretty much the same reaction loaded or empty on mine. First bump is slow, second is faster, but not a lot faster! As I've said before, it's fast enough to suit me though since I'm not doing it commercially all the time. Next trip out to my dealer's, I'm going to check out the CK25/30s again and pay attention to the joystick this time! Thanks VT_Kioti, Cdt80, shoppingtractors. John

Steve_Miller · Dec 3, 2004

Is this a regenerative valve? I've seen them used a lot in industrial hydraulicily run machines. Bare with me, I'm not sure how to put this into words. A regenerative valve is used on a hydraulic cylinder(s) that when being extended divert the oil from the retracted side into the extend side along with high pressure oil from the pump. This cuts back on the amount of oil needed to be pumped and also cuts down on the pump size required for a system as there is less oil to be pumped. It is usually used where there are multiple functions taking place at the same time putting a strain on the pressure side. You have to look at the overall picture of a setup to understand why they design systems like this. It saves on power, overall wear and tear on pumps, etc. To relate it to the second dump positon it will actually speed the dump up with weight in the bucket because it is similar to a float position except that the oil is going back into the opposite end of the cylinder along with high pressure oil, instead of back to the tank. The more weight the faster the oil will be pushed into the opposite end. Does this make any sense to anyone? If not, that's probably why I never became a teacher. If anyone can explain it better, please, feel free to do so. I will not be offended in any way.

Steve

KiotiJohn · Dec 3, 2004

( Does this make any sense to anyone? If not, that's probably why I never became a teacher. If anyone can explain it better, please, feel free to do so. I will not be offended in any way.)
It sounds quite reasonable to me Steve. I'm not that educated on hydraulics, but it makes sense the way you describe it. John

gunner · Dec 4, 2004

I know that on all 580 case and 310,410,510 john deeres the float shuold have a notch to the far right I can see where if you had it loaded it would seem like it was falling much faster than normal I havent used the kioti loader enough to get familiar w/it yet but most loader controls have similar hyd plumbing ,I've spent 100's of hours setting on the models mentioned above i'm hoping to spend 100s more on them and a new dk45.
gunner

KiotiJohn · Dec 4, 2004

( I know that on all 580 case and 310,410,510 john deeres the float shuold have a notch to the far right )
I know that on mine, the regular "float" position is all the way forward. What we're discussing here is a slow and fast dump position that is to the right. There's supposed to be a "feel" position in between so that one can tell as he/she pushes the joystick over to the right, but I can't really detect the feel, but the bucket dumps a little faster than the first position. It doesn't lock in that speed dump position like the float does.
Do the Case models have a slow/fast dump like I describe, or are you talking about float where it locks in, and the bucket just falls on gravity? John

rback33 · Dec 6, 2004

"Fast" dump is using the regenerative function of a valve. It takes oil from the Rod end of the cylinders and runs it back to the base. This is especially good to help eliminate cavitation, as you do not have to wait for the oil to "catch up" before you roll back. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

KiotiJohn · Dec 6, 2004

( "Fast" dump is using the regenerative function of a valve. It takes oil from the Rod end of the cylinders and runs it back to the base. This is especially good to help eliminate cavitation, as you do not have to wait for the oil to "catch up" before you roll back. )
Thanks rback for that explanation. I appreciate being able to learn more about the way hydraulics work on this forum. I should have learned it long ago, but just wasn't interested enough then I suppose. Another great TBN advantage. John