Attacking that power problem CT225

[dfkrug]

Here is something to think about:
I have lots of seat time (and wrench time) on 4 different HST tractors.
From the service manuals, my JD955's HST used 6000-6500psi RVs, and
my JD4300's HST uses 6000psi RVs. I no longer have my B21 service
manual. :-( That tractor is the only HST I have ever operated that would
stall the ENGINE in LOW range. ALL tractors I have owned or operated
with GEAR trannies could spin tires in LOW range....that is not the issue
here. Since I do a lot with installing backhoes, all these HST units are
operated with very heavy ballast. The low 5000psi RVs on the DaeDong
machines seems too low, based on my limited experience with other HST
tractors.

Has no one on TBN purchased a service manual for any of the Bobcat
CUTs?

 

[VictorW]

I have pulled a 6ft box blade also with no issue in mid range. I do not consider that a fair test. If you have some solid ground like a good dry field, put your loader against a tree, put her in low, rev her up and see if you can spin the tires. Mine can't, my dealers can't, I am curious if you a 235 can.

I have a Kioti CK30hst which I believe is the CT230. On hard dry dirt ground, in 4wd, diff lock, and at 2500rpm, it will stall in medium range if I push the bucket into something that doesn't want to move like a hard dirt pile. In low range, it will spin the tires if the bucket can't cut into the dirt. I've even spun them on an asphalt driveway trying to dig out hard dirt while in low range. I have R4 tires not loaded. The gear tractors do seem better at transmitting the power. Even the pto hp is a little higher with a gear. Sorry this doesn't help find your problem. Just advising how my tractor is for power and hst tranny.

 

[lilranch2001]

I plan on it when I have to start doing my own service, but I am going to let the dealer do the 50 hour service

 

[bbse]

I have a Kioti CK30hst which I believe is the CT230. On hard dry dirt ground, in 4wd, diff lock, and at 2500rpm, it will stall in medium range if I push the bucket into something that doesn't want to move like a hard dirt pile. In low range, it will spin the tires if the bucket can't cut into the dirt. I've even spun them on an asphalt driveway trying to dig out hard dirt while in low range. I have R4 tires not loaded. The gear tractors do seem better at transmitting the power. Even the pto hp is a little higher with a gear. Sorry this doesn't help find your problem. Just advising how my tractor is for power and hst tranny.

Perfect...that is what I was looking for. The fact that your relief valve doesn't open before your tires spin in low range is what I would expect from a 27-30HP CUT. Mine will not, it will pop the RV every time unless it is loose dirt. I am talking with the Bobcat service manager and I will pass this info on. Thanks.

 

[DKXJ]

I think its a simple concept. In low range, either the tires should spin, or the engine should stall.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I think its a simple concept. In low range, either the tires should spin, or the engine should stall.

How about this? ... If you continue to increase pedal fhe tractor should either move or spin or stall, regardless of range. If you cant stall the engine with the pedal there is no way youre even coming close to getting its HP to the ground before the relief pops and just throws all that power back into tke sump.
larry

 

[VictorW]

Perfect...that is what I was looking for. The fact that your relief valve doesn't open before your tires spin in low range is what I would expect from a 27-30HP CUT. Mine will not, it will pop the RV every time unless it is loose dirt. I am talking with the Bobcat service manager and I will pass this info on. Thanks.

I'm happy that helped a little. I've had my CK30hst for almost five years now with around 400+ hours. It seemed a "little" stronger as it hit the @100 hour mark, but so slight of a change in that it wouldn't give your's a big enough transformation from the way you explain it now. From most of the members at the Kioti site, it was the engine breaking in and giving me the full hp. I'm not sure that the hst actually breaks in as an engine does.

I've never measured any of my pressures. I hate to mess with something when it's working good. Even my fl seems strong. Most people and some excavation guys are surprised at what it will lift. I hope you get your problems figured out. Whether painted white or orange, they are nice tractors. (When working properly!)

 

[lilranch2001]

ok, I was heading out to the road tonight in high range and was thinking about this thread, I was going out to cut the hump along the road out. So when I got there, I left it in high range, about 2000 rpms, and put the bucket down and tried to cut into the 8 inch high hump, it rapidly lost rpms, and stalled the motor. I started it and took the RPMs all the way up , back up a little and hit it again, it made it almost through the 8" x 2 foot hump before it killed the motor again, the RV never dumped. It also did not spin the tires, but I was on asphalt with loaded rears.

 

[CT230 Fan]

Tonight I was mowing the grass for the first time this year. I don't have a lot of hills, but I do have a pretty steep hill on the road right of way. With my 6' finish mower and front end loader, I put it in high and proceeded up the hill. I'd had the hill is 30+ degrees. In high, it just dumped back to tank and I couldn't go forward. I shifted into Mid, and climbed right up the hill no sweat.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Tonight I was mowing the grass for the first time this year. I don't have a lot of hills, but I do have a pretty steep hill on the road right of way. With my 6' finish mower and front end loader, I put it in high and proceeded up the hill. I'd had the hill is 30+ degrees. In high, it just dumped back to tank and I couldn't go forward. I shifted into Mid, and climbed right up the hill no sweat.

... ? :confused2: ? ...

 

[Canada_CT230]

I tried my CT230 against the concrete slab with hard pack gravel driveway undernesth the tires. H range and M range = no spin. L = spin the tires. I have IND tires.

I plow snow in H and M range. I dig in L. Operate 90% of the time in M.

Never once thought I had no power.

 

[bbse]

I can't speak to hard packed or loose gravel. I am confident on hard dry ground with grass I cannot in low, my dealer couldn't nor could several others that have contacted me including a Kioti CK30HST owner. As to the hill, 30 degrees is really, really steep. My steepest hill is 25 degrees and I have to do that in low. I would use low even if I could climb it in mid because speed would be dangerous on such a steep hill. I tried mine again today on the 18 degree section. Same old, same old.

Here is a picture of the hill from the steep part being closest with the hill moderating the further you move away from the camera.

 

[jda1961]

hydrostatics trannies have no place in heavy farm work, i see posts here all the time about lack of power, its not power its crappy trannies. a hydrostatic is for wimps lol, be a real man and get a gear drive tractor. unless you are mowing grass.:laughing: live a learn, next time get a gear drive. i've seen hydrostaics get in a bind and sit there and hum and shake. a hydrostat and a powershift are to different things

 

[CT230 Fan]

My 30 degree hill is steep, but it is literally only about twice the length of the tractor. It is from where the road was dug through a hill, but I'd say it is every bit of 30 degrees, and my tractor went up it in Mid.

Yesterday I moved a big pile of clay that came from where they dug out for my septic tank. It's been almost two years, so it was very compacted and had grass and weeds growing out of it. I could not dig it very well in mid, but did pretty well in Low. I don't have a tooth bar, which probably would have been helpful. I found the best way to work it was to put the bucking in facing down a bit, then using the curl as I drove forward. I could spin the tires in low, but in mid it would go to relief. I thought it did very well for the size of tractor.

 

[skyline]

bbse and others

I got a call from my Bobcat salesman today. The reason he called was that on the follow up survey form I sent in after buying a CT225 last June, I had remarked somewhat negatively about both the low power and that it seemed I got a 25HP vs. 27HP that I thought I was getting. From reading this forum on how to tell if my model was the earlier produced 25hp model vs the newer 27hp, I had figured out partially my tractor's power problem but like others was hoping the break-in would improve things. He was pretty sure my tractor was 27hp not 25hp. I related what I could remember about checking the serial no. and even found 25HP listed in the manual provided. I can only imagine the manufacturer changed it since it was so underpowered but thought it odd that even the dealer didn't seem to know. Like others have reported, it can't even move in high gear on any slope at all, and brush cutting is a low gear job unless going down hill. I'll pass on what they tell me and look for any solutions.

 

[qed-cat225]

what do you mean 25HP in place of 27, now you got me worried, how can you tell as my unit was one of the first of 2008

 

[skyline]

As I said, everything anybody told me said the CT225 was a 27hp. Later after reading some posting here, I learned that it was really a 25hp. When the saleman called me today, it was clear he thought it was a 27hp as well. Their tech support guy called and wanted to check the kw rating on top of the valve cover when they come out to verify. Since I have the manual that came with it which says 25 and as I recall the number I checked verifyed it was an older unit that hadn't sold, I'm pretty clear it is, thus the "great" deal I got:ashamed:

 

[skyline]

Sorry I don't remember exactly what posting it was that I read on how to check your serial number. The tech guy at the dealer said on the 27hp, the kw rating would be 21.* vs only 18.6 on the 25hp. He said it was printed on top of the valve covers. I don't know if this adequately explains the gutlessness of this machine but 8% hp seems significant to me.

 

[lilranch2001]

I am telling you, I am sure glad I opted for the CT235 from all these posts, every day I get more seat time I am more impressed by it.
Tonight I was working on a patio and was tired of shoveling crushed stone from the back of my GMC, so I decided it was time to get come "Cat" time, I headed for the woods, and drove up to a 12 foot tall, 30 inch stump that had bugged me forever, just as my neighbor came driving up on his gator.
I raised the bucket to about 4 foot, drove up to it, bounced a couple of times, hit it again, and kept pushing and the whole root ball broke loose.
Reached under the root ball and picked it up and the whole stump went over, and was able to then push it to my brush pile.

My neighbors only comment was, "you piss me off, now I need to get one"

 

[bbse]

I am telling you, I am sure glad I opted for the CT235 from all these posts, every day I get more seat time I am more impressed by it.

From my research, the CT235 does have a different relief valve than the CT225/230. I could not justify $1800 for 8 more HP so I guess you could can be glad but I still don't want to spend $1800 for more 8 HP. I do plan to see if a relief valve from a 235 will fit in my 225. Could be an answer.
As my engine has broke in, it has gotten stronger...bad thing about that is it is all the easier to hit the RV. But one place I don't hit the relief valve and need the extra ponies is in the PTO. I can bog mine down and stall the engine pulling a 5 ft finish mower in thick grass. Climbing or pushing pops the relief valve but mowing bogs the engine. I have not hit the RV mowing but I have had to get off the pedal a bunch in this grass in Mid range on the flats and even in Low on the slopes. It does better with a 5 ft brush cutter but that is normal. I'm not complaining about this just describing what it does. I knew going in with a 27 hp unit a 5ft finish mower and brush cutter was about max in thick stuff. But those extra 8 hp would have been nice there.