Attaching deck driveshaft for 60" MMM

cdaledave89 · Oct 18, 2004

Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

This past weekend was the first time I tried re-attaching the 60" MMM to my new (13 hrs.) B7610. It took nearly an hour to get the mower deck driveshaft re-attached to the mid-PTO shaft underneath the tractor. Now I expected that it would be tight because it's still new, but not THAT tight. My brother-in-law got under the tractor and even both of us together still had difficulty getting it to slide over the PTO shaft. Eventually, the shaft slid on easily, like it should have in the first place. I'm not sure what we did to get it to go on. Now, I am aware of the sliding collar on the mower shaft, and the splines were lined up, but I'm thinking maybe the balls in the locking collar were sticking and not retracting enough. Oh, we also raised the deck up enough to make the mower shaft almost in-line with the mid-PTO shaft to eliminate binding.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make this connection easier? This was a major PITA and is not something I'm looking forward to doing 8-10 times per year.

-Dave

RonR · Oct 18, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

Son helped me re-attach my 54" MMM to the BX. Took us most of an hour to get it together.

I was dreading reinstalling it by myself recently. Was pleasantly surprised that it went on first time!

One thing I did differently this time was have the MMM in place, then slid it forward til it hit the front tires to allow me more room to be under the tractor.

Might have been luck, but it went on first try!

Ron

theboman · Oct 18, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

Sounds like beginners bad luck....we've all had our moments in the sun.
As you know the shaft and the coupler have grooves and they must lineup. You can easily turn the PTO shaft to line things up. I have collar pulled back then you start it onto the PTO shaft and don't worry about staying clean and have a dap of grease on the PTO shaft.
It gets much quicker. I can take off or put on my 60" MMM in about 5 minutes most days....every now and then I do something stupid and it takes longer...where did that darn pin go?

Henro · Oct 18, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

 Eventually, the shaft slid on easily, like it should have in the first place. I'm not sure what we did to get it to go on. 

Believe it or not, my experience is it is all in how you hold your mouth...have to have just the right expression... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Makes no sense but that is the way it works for me... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Same thing happens with the PTO pump coupling for my backhoe... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif ... never took an hour though... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

ronjhall · Oct 18, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

Dave
I find installing the Mid-PTO shaft is easier from rear of my B2910. The BX's do not have much clearance under the rear axle, But a B7610 should have enough clearance.

DanR67 · Oct 18, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

Dave -

I have only had difficulty getting the MMM (mines a 54") UNDER my B7610 - until I came up with this trick:

Big Pic

In regards to attaching the mid-PTO shaft - it is ALWAYS the first thing I attach once I get the MMM under the tractor - if it doesn't slide on - you should be able to turn the spline-shaft that goes to the MMM gearbox to get the coupling to align.

I think I *fought* it once - made the necessary faces as Henro suggested /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif - maybe took the better part of 1 minute - normally its like 10 - 15 seconds.

Is there any possibility that you *whacked* the mid-PTO during the first 13 hours of operation? For example - did you go "off-road" - maybe hitting a rock / tree stump etc.? Anything that you can think of where you might have nicked one of the splines? That's all I can think of that would make this really a struggle....

Any chance that your backhoe mounts interfere with MMM placement? (I don't have a hoe - just thinking out loud - thought I read a thread that Backhoes and MMM don't mix??)

************

One last point - the black *telescoping spline-shaft* (one end connects to mid-PTO - the other to MMM gearbox) DOES have a *keyed spline". The spline that lines up with the Zerk / grease fitting is WIDER than the rest - so these two pieces only go together ONE WAY.

Hope you get this sorted - don't panic - it is really not that bad once you discover what's the issue. I've probably taken my MMM on / off over a dozen times this year (first mowing season) - no issues like this.

Good luck!

Dan

SeymourBota · Oct 18, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

Raise the lifting arms fully, roll the mower under and attach the shaft first . It won't matter that you are working at an angle- it will be much easier if you don't have the lifting framework attached to the mower. It has even been suggested that lying on top of mower will make the job easier.
I don't think the locking ball bearings were sticking- if they were frozen, you would never have gotten it on.
I have wrestled with mine many times until I started attaching the shaft first. Now, mounting the mower is a 5-10 minute job, max.

Junkman · Oct 18, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

I did it this way this morning and it was still a fight. I have trouble just getting it started on the splined shaft. Once it is started, I don't fight with it any longer. I get out my 3# dead blow plastic faced hammer and just give it a few taps and it is fully seated. I have tried every trick that people have posted in the last year and none of them work for me, except for the dead blow hammer. Today, when I experienced problems, I sprayed it with WD40 and then wiped it down till there was no more grime on the spline. Then it was another coating of WD40 on both the spline and the drive shaft coupler. Nothing worked well. It seems that the longer that I have this machine, the more problems that it gives me. I have a sneaky suspicion that Kubota outsourced some of the drive-shafts couplers to a company in China, where a few thousands is "close enough". /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

DanR67 · Oct 18, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

Junkman -

Just a thought: now that we're past *mowing season* - ask your friendly neighborhood 'Bota dealer if you could borrow a new coupling from a similar MMM - just to see how it goes on.

If it still has a tight fit - I'd wonder about a *burr* on one of the splines of the mid-PTO. If the new coupling goes right on - then compare the two couplings carefully - maybe something you could clean up with a small file?

Just a thought...should tell you one-way or the other where the problem lies.

Dan

SeymourBota · Oct 18, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

I find it to be a one hand endeavor. I grab the connector with the palm of my right hand (right-handed) and then use my thumb and index finger to reach around opposite sides of the ring. I pull those 2 fingers back, compressing the ring and forcing the connector into my palm slightly. I then slide it up onto the PTO shaft. If it doesn't line right up (the splines) I use my left hand to turn the mower belt slightly to create subtle rotation until is starts on.
It seems like both hands would be easier, but in such a tight space, I have found that one hand makes the job easier.

BANDAMAN · Oct 19, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

I found it to be pretty easy on my BX2230 with 60"MMM. If your just taking the mower off while using the loader or something and never fiddle with the drive shaft or PTO, it should line right back up when you put it back on.

I attach everything, and then save the driveshaft for last. i spray WD40 on the PTO shaft and the couple. Nealing down on the left side of tractor I reach under with my left hand and slide the coupler on the first 1/2 inch to get it started. I then pull back the collar and slide it the rest of the way on and snap it into place.

I have found that trying to hold the collar back and line up the shaft doesn't work for me and I have cussed at it for 20 minutes once or twice. Now it usually just takes a couple of minutes.

I also have a nice clean shop floor, so If I want to, I just raise the 3 point arms, reach under from the rear of the BX and make sure the driveshaft is firmly attached.

snowman · Oct 19, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

I do it just like SeymourBota. I find that I have to lie on my side/back, and reach in with my right hand to grip/pull back the collar; takes alot of elbow grease. Sometimes have rotate it a little bit to line up. Always assume that you will end up covered in grease, etc.

I do keep the shaft greased well, as that does help alot.

I have had a difficult time getting the splines on the mower deck itself lined up when I've had that apart. I power wash the deck a few times a year, and lift it up with the FEL to do it. The PTO shaft always comes off when I do this, and can be a pain to put back together.

I also always attach the PTO shaft last; I figure that once it's hooked up to the lift arms and front bracket, it's as dead center as it can get. In addition, I'm afraid that if I just hook up the shaft first, and nothing else, that it will move and somehow "snap" the PTO shaft, with it being the weakest link.

WayneW · Oct 19, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

I also had some problems when I put mt mmm on the 7610. My problem was holding in that quick connect sleeve while sliding the coupling on the mid PTO shaft. After doing it though, I had 2 ideas for my next time.
1. Next time I'll try to put a small clamp or two on the coupling to hold in "open" as it were.
2. AFTER putting the tractor in 4wd and blocking the front tires, jack up the rear of the tractor and put it on jack stands. Then, as someone mentioned here previously, slide on the PTO shaft from underneath. Then loosen the clamps and viola! (maybe I wouldn't even need the clamps, I'll have to experiment)

Anyway, I'll try this after leaf season passes, about another 2-3 weeks.

chucko · Oct 19, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

I have had good luck pushing my deck forward and to the right to get more room. Then hooking the shaft .then moving the deck back to hook it to the hangers

tomnky · Oct 19, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

I always save the pto shaft for last and back it up on some car ramps I have, get on the creeper and hook it up in no time at all.

DanR67 · Oct 19, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

( ... slide the coupler on the first 1/2 inch to get it started. I then pull back the collar and slide it the rest of the way on and snap it into place.

I have found that trying to hold the collar back and line up the shaft doesn't work for me )

I also do just as Bandaman wrote - I get the coupling started on the mid-PTO spline - and only then pull back the collar to fully seat the coupling onto the mid-PTO spline.

Here's a picture that shows the mid-PTO spline - the "locking groove" for the coupling is about halfway along the spline:

So the spline in the coupling should get started onto the mid-PTO spline before you need to worry about the locking collar.

Final note: so far I have never used anything to lubricate the mid-PTO spline or coupling! I do hit the driveshaft and universal joint Zerk fittings when I grease the MMM deck - but that's it!

I do wish that there was a protective cover of some kind for the mid-PTO shaft when not in use - I hate to think how much *fun* that would be if you were to bash it against a rock!

Hope everyone finds something to help simplify this task - I really don't think this should - in principle - be such a problematic part of MMM attachment. My original issue was just getting the MMM in- / out- from under the CUT. My solution to that shown in the earlier post.

It takes me @ 5 minutes to remove the MMM - just under 10 minutes to re-install it - all a one-man job.

Cheers,

Dan

SeymourBota · Oct 19, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

( I have had a difficult time getting the splines on the mower deck itself lined up when I've had that apart. I power wash the deck a few times a year, and lift it up with the FEL to do it. The PTO shaft always comes off when I do this, and can be a pain to put back together. )

There is a small weld dot on the male side of the shaft that effectively joins 2 of the splines together and an extended opening in the female half to accomodate this spot. Therefore, the 2 pieces will only line in one position. If you find each of these spots first, sliding it on is easy.

brinet · Oct 19, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

After removing and re-installing my MMM about a gazillion times, I think the PTO components have "loosened up" some! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Admittedly, when the mower was new either I or the PTO connection needed some breaking in. Don't know which happened first, but at some point we finally made a connection (pun intended) and the process seems to be working smoother now.

So practice, practice, practice! Eventually the joints will loosen up (yours and the tractors) and the process will become easier.

snowman · Oct 20, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

Thanks Seymourbota...I'll have to look for that small weld dot the next time it is apart. I knew there was some sort of alignment "thingy" like a different groove or something, but could never see anything. My method was to try and push it together, and if it didn't go, rotate it a bit, and try again!

brinet · Oct 20, 2004

Re: Attaching deck driveshaft for 60\" MMM

( My method was to try and push it together, and if it didn't go, rotate it a bit, and try again! )

Try this: Once the two halfs of the shaft are connected, use white paint to "paint" a line from one half to the other. The next time the two halfs are separated, just align the paint to re-connect.

I guess it was easier and cheaper for Kubota to NOT place decals on the keyed parts to assist in re-connecting. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif