At what point does a CUT tip over?

[Specop_007]

Ok first off I realize this is *highly* dependent upon the tractor. Variables such as weight, wheelbase, center of gravity etc etc all come into play here.

But assuming one had a tilt gauge on their machine what would be considered a generic "be careful" point?

I ask because I have a MF 35 Delux with no ROPS (Which frankly scares the **** out of me) and a few fairly steep section I mow. Some are so steep I actually wont try it without a ROPS or a VERY accurate roll over angle number for this tractor and an accurate gauge on the machine. Then again I tend to play things safe. Something about life, I'd like to keep it for a while.

But if I at least had a generic number I would have a starting point. For all I know I could angle a lot more before having any problems or I could be in the danger zone as is. Going with gut feeling doesnt seem the best way to use a tractor with no ROPS though.

 

[Reg]

Ok first off I realize this is *highly* dependent upon the tractor. Variables such as weight, wheelbase, center of gravity etc etc all come into play here.

But assuming one had a tilt gauge on their machine what would be considered a generic "be careful" point?

I ask because I have a MF 35 Delux with no ROPS (Which frankly scares the **** out of me) and a few fairly steep section I mow. Some are so steep I actually wont try it without a ROPS or a VERY accurate roll over angle number for this tractor and an accurate gauge on the machine. Then again I tend to play things safe. Something about life, I'd like to keep it for a while.

But if I at least had a generic number I would have a starting point. For all I know I could angle a lot more before having any problems or I could be in the danger zone as is. Going with gut feeling doesnt seem the best way to use a tractor with no ROPS though.

I doubt that having a gauge and nominal NUMBER would help.
If you ever find yourself traversing a side slope the LAST thing your eye needs to be on is a gauge as the pucker factor approaches AW**** !
Watch for pot holes on the down side, lumps and bumps on the high side.
DESPITE your instinct, resist that and turn DOWN the hill if/when it starts to tip.

Oh yeah, have the bucket within an inch of the ground anyway and be ready to drop it.
Seat belt with ROPS, no belt without ROPS.
Loaded tires - ANY low ballast can help.

Play and enjoy playing, but play safe.

 

[Transit]

On some tractors, the wheels can be arranged to widen the wheelbase. Can the mowing be done up-down the slope as opposed to across?

 

[teg]

https://www.imcuniverse.com/store/25c.htm

Gives you an idea...

 

[orezok]

Somewhere right about here!

 

[Egon]

You need some outriggers.

 

[radioman]

I guess reg makes some good points here. Perhaps its time for you to build a ROP for your tractor ? anything is better then nothing.

 

[RobS]

The technical answer to the question is either 1) When the center of mass moves outward of the fulcrum point, or 2) It depends...

The reality is the markings on my tilt-meter. 15-20 is yellow and more than that is red. There is surely some safety factor in there but I don't like even 20 degrees. The "it depends" includes things like holes/dips that can take 20 to 30 degrees in a hurry!

 

[Transit]

Just a thought, work the problem backwards. Measure the slop angle and see if you would be comfortable working at that angle.

 

[Bird]

I have read somewhere that tractors with no implements or attachments should not roll over at 20 degrees. Of course that's assuming you don't find a small hole or dip on the low side, or a hump or stick on the high side. I had tiltmeters on my B2710 and I always started getting a bit uncomfortable at about 12 degrees (guess I'm not as brave as some), really tried to avoid anything more than 15 degrees, but have gone as much as 18 degrees pulling 5' rear finish mower with the FEL off the tractor. I really think that tractor would have survived 20 degrees, but not with me on it.

 

[Specop_007]

On some tractors, the wheels can be arranged to widen the wheelbase. Can the mowing be done up-down the slope as opposed to across?

Unfortunately no. Think of a ditch on a road. Its not long enough to attack on an up and down length.

 

[zzvyb6]

Most tractors with ag tires will slide before they tip over (as I have tested on my own property). That's one thing that most operators don't know about tire designs. But that was my line of work, too.

But, you can figure it out with a few simple steps. You need a tilt table on which to park your tractor with a simulated dummy on it (use your BIL ). You also need a scale capable of measuring the restraint force needed to keep the table from flopping over when you set the table at various angles (not very large ones either). When you have a dozen or so meaurements at lets say 2 - 5 degree increments you have enough data. Did I mention that you need to chain the tractor down vertically and laterally so it is locked in place. We used wood blocks from the table base up to the frame to hold it in an exactly controlled position. Using the data, compute the intercept of tilt angle when the scale data would go to zero (which it does at incipient rollover). From this you can also compute the center of gravity height, and this dimension gives you the info you need to figure out on what sidehill angle and extra sideforce it would take to roll it over. Yes in reality the tires are turning, you may be steering it, you may lean out of the turn, the earth is moving, the moon's gravity is pulling up on you and the sun is moving in the Milky Way. But, you will have a pretty darned close angle to stay away from. Yes you can get closer by steering the wheels and filling the fuel tank and mounting wights higher on the weight bar, but this tilt table technique is in standard use throughout the industry. We used strain gaged chains to tell us when the restraint loads went to zero (indicating rollover). but that's more info that you don't need to get PFC.

That's how you can tell on your particular machine. Like I said before, most tractors will slide down a hill on grass if presented with a large angle. If you trip it though, the angle would be lower. That means, a quick steer angle, hit a rut, jump off the seat, raise the loader, hit a bump, you get the idea...

5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0. Now all the makebelieve x-spurts can jump in.

 

[Transit]

I see one major flaw. Who´s got a tilt table?

 

[Steve C]

Ok first off I realize this is *highly* dependent upon the tractor. Variables such as weight, wheelbase, center of gravity etc etc all come into play here.

But assuming one had a tilt gauge on their machine what would be considered a generic "be careful" point?

I ask because I have a MF 35 Delux with no ROPS (Which frankly scares the **** out of me) and a few fairly steep section I mow. Some are so steep I actually wont try it without a ROPS or a VERY accurate roll over angle number for this tractor and an accurate gauge on the machine. Then again I tend to play things safe. Something about life, I'd like to keep it for a while.

But if I at least had a generic number I would have a starting point. For all I know I could angle a lot more before having any problems or I could be in the danger zone as is. Going with gut feeling doesnt seem the best way to use a tractor with no ROPS though.

What are you? Some kind of girly man? Afraid of being crushed to death by a diesel and oil filled cast iron weight????

Well I don't blame you, it is good thinking. If you have spent your youth riding dirt bikes you have a good feeling for when you are about to tip over. I would think that most people with tractors have never had that experienc.

To get the information you are looking for you would have to model the c.g of the tractor against a slope. I doubt that it would be helpfull, you just have to go there, with protection! Get some roll over protection and play with it. I have had my Farmpro standing almost on end but have felt very safe because I know what it will do. I was more concerned about the oil pick up.!!!

 

[archerm3]

I think something to consider here is the difference between a static rollover angle and a dynamic rollover angle. (this comes from helicopter aerodynamics but it applies to any vehicle)

Small bumps or changes in the side hill angle will develop a roll rate (a momentum if you will) in which the vehicle, in this case a tractor, will tip over at some angle LESS than the static rollover angle, which was discussed above with the tilt table. The faster you go, the more that the forward motion can be converted (or ramped) into a rolling motion. Hence a gauge is worthless unless you'r3 dead stopped, and the slower you go the better. Also, if your tires are slipping sideways, that sideways motion will be converted into that same rolling motion when the sideways slipping tire eventually snags on something.

 

[dmccarty]

I have and use a Tiltmeter on my tractor. There certainly is time to glance over at the Tiltmeter while watching the ground and where you are driving. I do it all of the time. I hope people watch their engine RPM, temps and fuel gauges. Looking at the Tiltmeter is no different.

The Tiltmeter is not going to see nor tell you there is a stump, rock, log, or hole that you are about to hit that will turn you over but it will tell you that you the tractor angle. You then decide if that angle is safe or not. A single small rock or hole can be enough to take you quickly from a safe angle to a roll over. The operator has to decide what is a safe operation angle for the conditions.

Much more than 10 degrees is not fun. At some point after using the Tiltmeter you get a feel for the angles. I have a ditch that I mow. It starts up very shallow but as it works its way up hill the steepness increases. There is a certain spot where I have to stop mowing with my tires in the ditch. BUT that spot can change over time and it has.

I mow in low range first gear so I am just crawling along and I watch the Tiltmeter. The tractor starts out at 5 degrees and I get out of the ditch between 10-15.

Mowing a ditch or bank you have to be concerned with the dirt moving out from under the tractor as well.

With my tractor and implements held low to the ground I don't think the tractor will flip at 20 degrees but since I don't have a tilt table that is just a guess. I don't get near 20 degrees if I can help it. If I do I quickly get the tractor back to something safer. I seldom get past 10 or so with maybe 15 in that ditch. Maybe.

Later,
Dan

 

[woodlandfarms]

As a side note, there are ROPS you can buy for most any tractor. I don't know yours, but given your goals it sounds like a good investment in your future.

Carl

 

[MarkV]

For me 15 degrees is about the stopping point. Are your tires filled with a liquid? It helps with stability a lot.

MarkV

 

[Reg]

Any chance of mowing these ditches with an off-set mower ?
Not "Ducking" the question again, but it is a situation that I would much prefer to avoid than solve or experience.

 

[Specop_007]

Any chance of mowing these ditches with an off-set mower ?
Not "Ducking" the question again, but it is a situation that I would much prefer to avoid than solve or experience.

Its a valid point, but frankly an expense I dont want. I just avoid mowing those areas, which cuts down on my tractor time and that aint a bad thing!