At Home In The Woods

[walleyed]

We've decided to change cabinet makers. In addition to not being available until after Thanksgiving, the original cabinet maker increased his bid by 60% for some minor changes we asked for. After we got a new bid from the other cabinet maker that includes the changes, the original cabinet maker's price now is almost double the next bid. Included with the original cabinet maker's new bid was an invoice for "design" work he did. We had already paid him $550 for design fees. When he was asked for some more changes, he said they would require more design fees. My wife asked how much and he said $150 to $200 and my wife ok'd that. His invoice had a $640 charge when we were expecting $200 for design work. Now we're having discussions about that fee.

I believe we will like the new cabinet maker. There were some things about the original cabinet maker's design that I wasn't thrilled with. He buys a lot of his components instead of making himself. For example, he orders the doors from someone instead of making them. I had expected a "custom" cabinet maker to be more "custom" work than he appears to be. The new cabinet maker makes the doors and includes a lot things standard, for example quarter round at the bottom of the cabinets; the original cabinet maker was going to charge extra for the quarter round.

A lot of the smaller cabinet shops farm out doors and drawers. They can usually buy cheaper then making them from scratch. The equipment to make them in quantity is not cheap. The few places i have purchased from have had very good quality as well as quick delivery.

Maybe we all should be designers. That seems like quite a hike in $ for minor changes. Is he charging you again for full design fee?
Let us know how you make out with him.

The house is coming along nice. Good job.

 

[Coyote machine]

We had the high end cabinet making company in our area do the birch wood cabinets for our new kitchen last year. SOLID wood shelves 3/4" throughout. NO particle board, no plywood, etc. They were discounted down to reflect the lack of work due to the economy. Birch is beautiful and more pricey then cherry or maple.
There was NO design charges at all and they farm out the doors and drawer fronts, I believe.
It cost us about $40,000 total, delivered but NOT installed.
They sell all over the country and if you want to contact them let me know.

BTW, we are having them do our 'flip' house kitchen design currently and are allowing for the first time for anyone to choose plywood for the shelves, to reduce costs in this still rank economy.

The results are excellent and we have NO complaints. One of our carpenters noted the European style hinges were a mid grade instead of a high end grade hinge- which just means it has a few less features. It has not been a problem to date.

In my estimation you are getting ripped off for fees that should not be charged if you use the designer to do your cabinets. We priced out home depot, another independent lumber supplier, for mid-grade semi- custom cabs, and the one we went with, full custom cabs.
The one we chose was only a few thousand more than the others for far more product quality.
The designers at the two other stores did not charge us anything for their time and design work. All spent a fair amount of time on the various designs.

 

[Obed]

The kitchen tile has been laid but not yet grouted. We really like how the "tile carpet" pattern in the middle of the floor turned out. We like the tile guy. He is very mild mannered, accommodating, and extremely easy to work with.

Crown moulding is currently being installed by the trim carpenter. It feels quite strange having crown moulding up; the house just doesn't seem finished enough to have crown moulding. Personality wise, the trim carpenter is the exact opposite of the tile guy. He's blunt and outspoken and sometimes humorous. The trim carpenter's work so far has been good; he's slow and very particular.

We were going to have the trim guy install our back porch railing and decking but now we are having second thoughts. He would not bid the back porch at a fixed price but would only do the back porch job if paid by the hour. We are nervous that he would take forever to do the back porch work and would cost a fortune.

My wife talked to the building commissioner today about the occupancy permit. We don't have to have the back porch finished as long as we nail some boards across the back door to seal the door until the porch is finished. We might wait to finish the back porch. Who knows, if we have time, we might consider doing that work ourselves. It could be a fun project when you don't have time constraints.

 

[Obed]

The delay in installing the waterline from the well to the house caused by the well guy last week has had some negative impacts. He was supposed to install the waterline last Friday (6 days ago) but had failed to verify his helper would be available. So the big push to get the "early on" electrical permit last week was somewhat in vain.

Sunday night we got 1" of heavy rain. The black temporary drain pipe we have attached to the gutter came apart during the heavy rain and dumped a lot of water into the trench. In addition, water came through the basement wall where the electrical service line runs through the wall and attaches to the one of the house electrical panels. Fortunately we did not see any other water in the basement. The foundation drains must have helped. I opened the covers off both electrical panels in the basement so they can dry out.

Tuesday my wife reattached the black drain pipes and put screws in them to prevent the pipes from coming apart again. Tuesday night we got 2 1/2 inches of more rain. Wed. and Thursday the waterline trench had several inches of water in it. Fortunately, we didn't appear to have water come through the electrical hole again.

In preparation for having the waterline installed tomorrow, tonight, I cleaned some of the debris from the storms out of the trench using hand tools. It was a muddy mess and not much fun. There were some places where the sides of the trench had caved in from the tremendous amounts of rain. I had to shovel out the cave-ins and remove rocks and extra silt from the trench.

I don't know what is is about digging near the house by the dining room. It just seems that when I do so, we get some unusual rain and I have to redo the work. For example, back in May when I was working in this spot, I got rained out and had to completely re-do the drain tile I had almost finished installing.

Some of the rain that hit Memphis and Nashville also reached here. We did not get nearly as much but we still go enough to cause me some extra work. We got 3 1/2 inches of heavy rain. I was working on this drain tile when the rain started and I had to stop. I was 15 minutes away from finishing. I had a steady stream of rain running down from the roof valley onto this spot and there was no way I could continue working. Unfortunately, my drain tile and gravel got filled with silt so I'm going to have to completely redo it including shoveling out all the gravel and replacing it with clean gravel.

I'm wondering if someone buried a root near this spot and put a hex on it.

 

[dstig1]

Water shouldn't be coming in the conduits for the electrical service. Make sure the electrician seals those conduits with electrician's putty, and I'd say make him do it ASAP, unless they are going to be running more wires through them. It is required by code (at least up here, probably everywhere)

 

[Obed]

Maybe we all should be designers. That seems like quite a hike in $ for minor changes. Is he charging you again for full design fee?
Let us know how you make out with him.

I can't figure out what the original cabinet guy was thinking. Back when we chose him over the other people who bid the job, he indicated that through the design phase, there could be changes that could result in an increase in costs. I had a frank discussion with him and told him that his price was already at the high end of our budget and that there could not be significant price increases in the cabinet job. Unfortunately, the result of his "design work" was a 62% increase in his cabinet job estimate. I would consider a 62% price increase to be significant. Thus, I strongly believe that the $1200 he is trying to charge us for design work is not something I'm ethically obligated to pay because he was designing something that I told him up front would not be acceptable (i.e. a design of cabinets that significantly increased the job cost).

We did not think that the changes we requested were that significant. In fact, the changes we asked for only increased the other cabinet makers bid by 10%. How those same changes increased the original cabinet maker's bid by over 60% is completely beyond my comprehension. And he didn't low-ball his original bid; he was the most expensive all along.

Yesterday I talked to the original cabinet maker's wife about the design fee. I offered to meet them in the middle and split the difference between what we thought we should pay and what they were asking. They are going out of town and should get back with me Monday. I believe I'm actually being very generous in my offer to them. I just don't like the stress and I'm sure they can use the money.

However, the brass tax is that they have almost no leverage. I've offered to pay them the whole invoice minus $220. The only thing they could do if they refuse our offer would be to put a lein on our house. Our attorney told us a few months ago that if a sub files a lein, he has up to one year to sue or his right force payment through the courts expires. Title attorneys ignore mechanics leins that are over 2 years old. Since we are not getting a mortgage on this house and we are not likely to sell within the next two years, filing a lein against our property has no teeth and doesn't concern me at all.

Obed

 

[Obed]

Water shouldn't be coming in the conduits for the electrical service. Make sure the electrician seals those conduits with electrician's putty, and I'd say make him do it ASAP, unless they are going to be running more wires through them. It is required by code (at least up here, probably everywhere)

Dave,
They "sealed" both electrical panels in the basement with silicon caulk. The caulk in one of the panels looked good and didn't leak. However, the caulking of the other panel was visibly poorly done and is the one that leaked. We will get it caulked. However, once we fixed the temporary gutter drain, it did not leak again even when we got 2 1/2 inches of rain. Caulk is a last ditch attempt at preventing the water entry. The real solution is to prevent the water from reaching the electrical hole to begin with.

Obed

 

[Obed]

We had the high end cabinet making company in our area do the birch wood cabinets for our new kitchen last year. SOLID wood shelves 3/4" throughout. NO particle board, no plywood, etc. They were discounted down to reflect the lack of work due to the economy. Birch is beautiful and more pricey then cherry or maple.
There was NO design charges at all and they farm out the doors and drawer fronts, I believe.
It cost us about $40,000 total, delivered but NOT installed.
They sell all over the country and if you want to contact them let me know.

Sounds like you have some really nice cabinets. I'm optimistic that we will like the work of the cabinet maker who is doing the work. They are a second generation family business who installed the cabinets in a very nice house of one of our neighbors.
Obed

 

[77transam]

Obed,
Fantastic thread! I've been skimming through and it really is amazing to see how much attention to detail you've given this project. Sorry to hear you're having problems with some of your subs/designer. I guess that's the price one pays when being your own GC.

If you had the chance to go back and start over, and money wasn't an issue, would you let someone else oversee all the work? Or are you happier with the results you've obtained by being so involved in all aspects of the build?

 

[dstig1]

Dave,
They "sealed" both electrical panels in the basement with silicon caulk. .... Caulk is a last ditch attempt at preventing the water entry. The real solution is to prevent the water from reaching the electrical hole to begin with.

Obed

Absolutely, but that is also a main reason to keep penetrations out of the foundation walls if possible. Around here, most electrical service comes in through the rim joist, if it goes in to the basement. Very little chance for water intrusion that way (assuming reasonably proper detailing...) as it is above grade. When all you have is the caulk as the seal, you will eventually get a leak... In your case, you clearly understand the need to keep roof drainage and surface water away, you just aren't done yet. Carry on!:thumbsup: