Arena Groomer

[hess]

I am looking into both Millcreek's arena groomer and the ring groomer from Eastern Farm Machinery.
They both have the same design and principle: the rotating harrow has spikes that loosen and level the dirt.
They appears to be very aggressive and effective, but I would like some more information.
Personal experience or links (or other recommended arena harrows) would be greatly appreciated.
hess

 

[Knight9]

http://www.parmacompany.com/arena/

Only one I've actually heard of as an "arena groomer" prior to this. No experience with it however!

Kevin

 

[cowboydoc]

I've used them all Hess at one time or another and none of them beat a disc and harrow. I'll usually disc my arena to about 4" once a month and then before I use it I will just run a drag harrow over it. When people come over to rope they always ask how I get my arena so nice but are amazed when I tell them. You can usually by the harrow sections for less than $50 and an old disc won't cost you much either, probably less than a $100. That's my advice anyway.

 

[hess]

Richard,
Approximately, what size disc and harrow would I be looking for? I have a 26HP 4200.
Also, what are some brand names I could search under?
Thanks, hess.

 

[DDT]

hess,
I would vote for a 5' disc. That is what I used behind a 755 & 855. Now that I have a 4300 I'd like to trade it in for a 6'. Why is it every time you get a bigger tractor you seam to allways need bigger equipment.

 

[hess]

DDT,
Can you give me any model or brand names?
Also, I do not understand the difference between a disc harrow, and a disc AND harrow as cowboydoc described.
Thanks, hess.

 

[cowboydoc]

Hess,
The one I use for my arena is just a little 4' disc that is mounted on the three point. As you probably know you don't want to get too deep with your footing or you can get leg problems in your horses. With the three point you can control the depth really easy. Brand new from farm and fleet they are $399. I see them all the time at farm sales as nobody wants them for $100 or less. Also for the harrow all you need is just a pull behind. I just use a section of an older bigger harrow that I picked up for $10 at the auction. It's about 4' wide. I just pull it with my four wheeler and it does a great job.

 

[cowboydoc]

Hess,
Just saw your other post. A disc harrow has the harrow mounted right behind the disc. As the ground is disced up them it's run right over with the harrow. As far as brands go if you want to buy new like I said F&F has the little disc for $399. You can buy the 4' harrow section from country mfg. for $265 for the pull behind and $300 for the 3 point freight included. If you go that route I'd get the three point though for the extra $35. Nice thing about the disc and harrow is that you can use them for other things as well. With an arena groomer, well you're stuck with just that. Not alot of other uses.

 

[hess]

Thanks,
I checked into the King Kutter and Tufline models, as well as the chain harrows.
I think I'll start looking for used disc's locally.
hess

 

[GrantMO]

Richard and Hess,

What I always called a disc the manufacturers of the smaller implements call a disc harrow with either smooth or notched disc blades. Harrows like Richard is talking about (I think) are the spike tooth variety you see bigger farmers dragging alone or behind their larger discs usually a number of them fastened together. The spikes are small,like railroad spikes. Around here you have to go out away from the city a bit to auctions and you can usually find those types of harrows pretty cheap. A local farm store had a new 8 or 10 ft. wide harrow without 3pt hookup and it was 600 bucks!

 

[ddl]

The Harrow I got is a Furest Harrow, just like the big Harrows that the farmer use. I got it at an implement dealership and cost $300.00 and is four foot wide and 7 foot long. I tried to find a section of a drag and everyone just looked at me and said good luck. The harrow works really good and I use it to smooth the ground once I tilled up a yard. Pulled in one direction, the teeth attach and then pulled the other direction the teeth smooth the surface. I even use the Harrow to smooth out my driveway, works great.

 

[GrantMO]

ddl,

I know what you mean about finding the used harrows around here. I had a friend buy me 3 sections of an old drag harrow but he got it at a sale in southern Iowa. I have yet to go up and bring them back. He paid either 12 dollars each or for all of them, I can't remember.

 

[hess]

Richard,
I appreciate the advice regarding the disc harrow, but my wife needs more reassurance, as she wants something simple (ie - rotary harrow) regardless of the cost.
She is very particular about the ground condition for barrel racing and she doubts that a roper, such as yourself, would have the same needs.
Whether that is true or not, my question is twofold:

1) How simple would it be for HER to hop on the tractor and condition the ground, using the disc/chain harrow combo? (amount of time/effort to achieve the same results)

2) Based on your experience, is your ground as conducive to barrel racing as it has been for your roping?

In addition, she doesn't want to harass me everytime the ground needs worked up, and would like to keep this chore as simple as possible.
Of course, I would like to buy two versatile implements for the cost of one (which is not very versatile).
Your response will probably determine our decision.
Thanks again.
hess

 

[cowboydoc]

Hess,
First of all no offense to your wife but how long has she been around horses? I know you didn't mean it offensive but if anything a roper has to have better traction and ground than a barrel racer. How would you like to have a 1000 pound steer on the end of a rope in bad ground? ANY horse event that you do needs good ground, doesn't matter if it's a million dollar race horse or an old barrel or rope horse that the kids use. Anyway no offense. BTW I also train reining horses and my wife and daughter barrel race. Last year they won over $100,000 with her barrel mare so I don't think we'd be taking too many chances with her. They turned down $75,000 for her last year. Most of my roping horses are in the range of $10 - 30k so I surely won't be taking any chances with them. Sorry to get off the subject a little but it just irks me a little when people think that their event is somehow more special for a horse or themselves. That's about the only thing that I dislike about people and horses is their egocentricism towards one breed, event, etc.

Ok back to the subject. If cost is not a factor and you want something simple, quick, and foolproof go for the Parma Groomer. You can see it at their website at www.parmacompany.com. That's a one pass system and impossible to screw up. You won't be able to use it for much else but it's simple and does a fantastic job on the arena. I wouldn't go with that circle harrow as it really is no better than a 3 point harrow and four times the cost. For the cost of that circle harrow I'd spend a little more and get the parma groomer. It's really a nice deal, but pricey.

Depending on how adept your wife is at running a tractor and such it takes a little skill to use the disc and then the harrow. I am meticulous about never having more than 3-4" of ground broken up for the arena. Basically just means that you have to keep the disc level and feel it over the ground. Harrowing isn't that big of a deal especially if you get one of the three point ones. I just use my pull ones. My wife does it all but she was born and raised on a ranch so she's been running tractors her whole life. What I do is disc up the arena one a week. Then everyday before we use it I run over it with the four wheeler and the pull disc.

Please don't take my rantings as disrespectful to you. I will gladly give you all the advice you need on horses and arenas. It's just one of my pet peeves.

 

[cowboydoc]

Hess,
I just talked to a friend of mine and if you want one of those parma groomers I can get you another 10% off of their price.

 

[hess]

Richard,

Well... I guess I won't be showing her that post (she's 9 months pregnant and very sensitive right now).

She is really not as egocentric as I may have made her sound. In fact, she used to goat-tie and rope calves (loves dressage) - it's just that her talent is in racing barrels.
She has been involved with horses since she was 6 (25 years), and she moved from eastern PA to Oklahoma to go to college and rodeo. After she transferred to Tennessee in her junior year, she finished 1st overall at the CNFR. She's been racing in pro rodeo's ever since.
From what she has told me, some of her old rodeo friends had small arena's, and with one exception, they all had poor ground conditions (too clumpy, too sandy, etc.), but my wife cannot remember what types of implements they used (her strength is in training and riding - not mechanical things).
She simply wants the ground to be the best it can be. But trust me, it burns me a little when she questions my judgement also.

A little history: two months ago I had my neighbor run his chisel plow, followed by a disk harrow, over a 225' X 125' section of pretty dense pasture. Since then it has been my responsibility to work the ground into shape. But I am still having problems getting rid of the clumps of dirt (using only the scarifiers on my box blade, and a recently bought chain harrow), as well as the rocks (which seem to appear magically after picking thousands of them up).
I realize that it is time to get my own implements that can do the job.

Based on what you've been saying, it seems as if the disc may be the best tool to take care of the clumps, but thank you for the offer on the Parma groomer.

I'm glad you didn't take offense (neither did I), and if you can think of anything else, I'd appreciate a post.

Thanks for all the help.
hess

 

[cowboydoc]

Hess,
Two things will help you. 1. Disc the heck out of it. Disc it north south, east west, and then diagonally. This will remove all your clumps. If you have a rototiller this will do it as well. The other thing that you can use is a pulverizer. This works good to work the dirt up as well. The next thing I would do is get some sand brought in so that your dirt doesn't clump together. Too much sand is no good, but a mix with your dirt will do great. It will drain better, not clump, less grooming, and better for the horses legs and feet. The other thing that will help if you get alot of rain is to tile it as well.

I'm surprised with that much horse experience that your wife would make that kind of a statement. Being in prof. rodeo, my wife and I are as well, surely she knows the kind of care that ropers give their horses. I mean before I got married and had kids my horses were my family. Most of my friends, myself included, treat our horses better than we treat ourselves. If your wife is running at that level then you know what these animals are worth and that you wouldn't take any chances on them getting hurt. But hey if your wife is pregnant that explains alot. Both times when my wife got pregnant she wanted a divorce, so I know how the hormones go. Second time she got pregnant I gave her a cup and went down to the clinic at 2 in the morning because I was really hoping she was pregnant again or I was in trouble. She was.
My wife mostly goes to the futurities. We hit the local pro rodeos within 200 miles or so but the money for my wife is at the futurities. I've gotten more into the reining as well as there is alot more money there for the time. I rope locally but travel some for the reinings as it makes it worth your while to go.

Well good luck with the arena and I'll talk to you later.

 

[hess]

Richard,
Last night, as my wife and I were discussing the arena situation, I asked her about the roping comment, and she doesn't remember saying anything of the sort. In fact, when pressed, she said much of the same stuff you mentioned regarding footing for ALL rodeo events (so, maybe it's MY hormones - and memory - that are screwed up). Of course, I decided not to tell her about what I had originally said, or your reply, for that matter.

As for the rodeo, my wife has hit mostly local "jackpots" for the past 2 years. With our son on the way, I'm not sure if she'll get back into the cross-country rodeo's for some time. Best of luck this summer.
hess

 

[cowboydoc]

If your wife has been around like she has I wouldn't expect her to say anything like that. It's mostly the newbies to horses that make those kinds of comments or think that their breed or whatever is better. Once you've been around as long as your wife has with horses you pretty much respect everything that people do with horses as you know the time, care, and patience that goes into any horse event.

Hey I found a couple of other arena groomers similiar to the parma groomer. One is the Ground HOg by Lucas Metal Works. No website but their phone is 918-535-2726. The other one is the Reveal 4 N 1. Their website is www.reveal4-n-1.com. They are both knockoffs of the parma groomer but you may be able to get a better deal on one of them. They are the only ones that are really what you are looking for.

 

[hess]

Richard,
I checked into the 4-n-1 and the Ground Hog, and they are discussed on the same site. This machine (4-n-1) even has water tanks attached. Cost $3,900.
Money may not be an object for my wife, but I prefer to stay under $600. Looks like I'm going to get a Wallace disc harrow (6 ft./600 lbs) from TSC for $499.
Thanks again, the 4-n-1 looks like an awesome machine.
hess